Detroit diesel problem

[chrisdvorak]

The machine is a trojan 164a loader and the engine is a 2 stroke 3-53 detroit. the problem I am having is the engine will start and run for about 10 mins then it will slowly die. if you try to start it again right after it will not run, but if you wait awhile it will start again and do the same thing. when it does run it revs up and idles fine and blows no smoke. This problem seemed to start when the weather got cold but I don't think its gelled fuel. the fuel filters have been replaced recently. I am thinking fuel pump but I haven't seen one fail like this before.

- thanks

 

[aczlan]

When it starts to die, have you tried opening the fuel cap? I have seen similar issues on smaller equipment from a plugged tank vent which caused the tank to end up in a vacuum after running for a while.

Aaron Z

 

[chrisdvorak]

Yes I have, unfortunately it makes no difference.

 

[nspec]

Air leak on the fuel side of things?

 

[nspec]

Hey, one more thing I just thought of. (we had the same loader on the farm when I was a kid) You have the shutoff behind the seat to the left? You pull out the handle on the cable to shut the engine down? That cable shuts the damper on the air box. The cable can freeze and the damper will remain partially closed. This will allow the engine to 'kinda run'. I would check the blower housing on the motor air box and make sure the damper is fully open. They usually have a small mechanism that rotates the damper. If you have an electric shutoff, you will still have an emergency air shutoff cable somewhere. They have a spring loaded lock - when you pull the emergency shutoff cable, you move the latch holding the damper open and there is a spring that will shut the damper. Perhaps it's not latched open?

If it's not that, I would go with the gelled fuel theory. Once gelled, filters need to be changed. Go to wal mart and buy a bottle of power service. Works awesome for keeping fuel from gelling.

 

[chrisdvorak]

thanks nspec, I will look at the shutoff cable and see if it is hung up anywhere. I do use power service additive and did dose it pretty heavy the last tank to keep it from gelling, but I am running out of options on what it could be so I may just change the filters anyway.

 

[chrisdvorak]

ok, I have changed both filters and pre-filled them before installation now it will not start at all. I am sure you do not have to remove the valve cover and work on the injectors just to change the fuel filters but I must be missing something?

 

[aczlan]

ok, I have changed both filters and pre-filled them before installation now it will not start at all. I am sure you do not have to remove the valve cover and work on the injectors just to change the fuel filters but I must be missing something?

Usually you have to crack the lines going onto the injectors until you have fuel coming out to bleed them.


Aaron Z

 

[Paystar]

Just a thought.....have you checked inside the tank? I have had a loader and a big truck do this and discovered a piece of debris floating around in the tank. When you started it.....the debris would be pulled up to the pickup tube, block it, then die. Then when you let it sit......it would unsuction and fall back to the bottom allowing you to start it and run for a bit before it does the same thing. I've seen mechanics at shops puzzled by this.

 

[chrisdvorak]

I have thought about this. there is a small clear inline filter mounted right outside the tank outlet and my thinking is if there was something blocking the tank outlet inside, the fuel would be used up in the line and the small filter would be empty right after it stalls but this is not the case as it always has fuel in it. by looking at the system it seems that one line of the pump goes from the primary filter and the other goes to the secondary filter which supplies pressurized fuel to the injectors. If my thinking is correct the only way fuel is transfered from the tank to the primary pump is by a vacum and when I changed the filters it lost its prime. do you think by pressurizing the tank and cranking the engine that It would get fuel back to the main filter?

 

[Blaneypark]

Take the fuel filter(s) off and fill them with Power Service and try to start. If you have gelled fuel the PS will get into the injectorquickly that way.. Done it that way a few times and has worked well.

 

[Rock knocker]

You have tried Smock Stack?
Vintage Diesel Engines - SmokStak

 

[chrisdvorak]

I did fill the filters with a mix of howse fuel additive and diesel fuel. I don't think it is gelled fuel this time as before I changed the filters it would start and run for awhile before it died and after I changed them it won't start at all. I believe the problem is I am not getting fuel to the main filter I'm just not sure the best way to get it primed again.

 

[tcartwri]

Crack the return line to the injector pump. It has the same effect as purging the injectors.

 

[chrisdvorak]

This engine does not have an injection pump, only one mechanical fuel pump that feeds the injectors.

 

[Soundguy]

if it runs and then dies. i'd look at fuel.

we had a 353 that just stopped running. could take intake off and stat it on spray penetrant lube.. and make it run as long as you sprayed.

 

[tcartwri]

This engine does not have an injection pump, only one mechanical fuel pump that feeds the injectors.

Is there no return line? Or do they just dead head the pump?

 

[plumbstraight]

If you have an air compressor handy, take off the line feeding your fuel filters from the tank and back blow it. then put a rag on the tank filler with your air and put just a small amount of pressure to push fuel back through the line and hook it back up. Do the same from the filters to the pump, only take off both ends. put the end on the filter back on and make sure you have fuel to the pump before reattaching the line.

It is my thinking you have a restriction in the line that lets it fill from the tank when sitting for a bit but will not let a steady flow through. I had a piece of float for the gauge get to my 90 degree fitting next to the filter. Would just let enough flow for an idle. When I would open it up it would sound like the injectors were missfiring. Mechanics gave up but gave me all sorts of advice like replace all the injectors and fuel pump. Sure over a grand for a small piece of plastic. Glad I didn't listen to them.

After re reading thought I might point out, about that line from the tank, take it off at the filter to back blow. Don't know your experience, just wanted to make it a bit more clear.

 

[buickanddeere]

Usually you have to crack the lines going onto the injectors until you have fuel coming out to bleed them.


Aaron Z

Cracking injector lines on a 3-53 Detroit ?

 

[buickanddeere]

Crack the return line to the injector pump. It has the same effect as purging the injectors.

What injector pump "line"?