Landplane possible build

[jcummins]

Yes, yet another landplane thread.

I have a new 1500ft gravel driveway. And have thoughts of building a landplane for maintaining it. It so happens a neighbor's relative has a landplane and I was able to borrow to see how it will work out. It works reasonably well, but have some issues. Few questions on a build of one after using this one that I hope knowledgable people here can help me on. BTW, I think I've read every landplane thread on this forum already.

The driveway: My driveway is new and has NOT settled down the way the rock man has said it would. It was built late fall last year. Acts like it needs to be rolled in. I have found UPS trucks, in particular, are hard on it. There are two sections to my driveway, last section is flatter and is starting to settle in a bit now. The first section has two culverts, and the ground rolls a bit, not steep, but certainly not flat either. Coming in after the first culvert is where the UPS trucks tends to dig into the gravel coming up the grade. This is clean 3/4" gravel, wish it was finer, with dust? I know that is part of the problem.

Landplane I'm using: Below is couple of pictures of the landplane I'm using. It reassembles a Road Boss brand, by the way the 3 point is designed, but brand is unknown. My guess it could be an old Road Boss. It is not a home built one. It is heavy. The blades are a fixed height, and the front is about 1/8 below the rails, the rear is closer to 1/4"? I suspect it was built with the blades both set to about 3/8 below and are now what they are because of wear. The side rails are 6 ft long, 16 high. It is 7 ft wide and seems ideal for my M7040. The support for the blades are 1/2" 3 1/2 x 5 1/2 angle. Set with 28 degs on the blade side, 55 degs on the back side.

Now the questions:
With the blades set in this manner, I roll a LOT of gravel. I cannot set it on the ground and drag, I have to feather the plane up. Given this, if the blades set even with the bottom of the rails it would probably be better. From what I read, nobody runs a landplane that way. Has anyone ran into this? I'd MUCH prefer having it set so I just drag it. Feathering this up/down depending on the volume of gravel it catches is 'touchy'? I was constantly adjusting it. I can see this may call for adjustments in the blades, up/down, but it seems many (not all) on this forum set it one way and never touch it again. I can see several ways to build the adjustment. I'm thinking two holes only in the side rail, with multiple staggered holes in the plate the blades mount to move up down. Staggering the holes will move the blades forward or backward, but only slightly. Another driveway with very little gravel was drug with this same setup before mine? It did not do this, it was just drug on the ground, no adjustments to the 3pt height needed. So the new gravel not settled is a big part of the problem here.

The blades mounts are 20 1/2" apart. From many reviews, that seems closer together than many. There is 9" in front of the front blade mount, and there is 8" behind the side rail on the back blade mount, so these can go both forward and backward some....BUT..should either. Is this spacing to close? I could easily drill more holes in the side rails to adjust this distance, on the one I build but is it needed?

Everything on this landplane is built in components and bolted together. The 3pt and support rails bolt to the side rails. The upright on the 3pt bolts to the support rails (exactly the way Road Boss does) The blades bolt to the side rails. Many I see on the internet do not have plates supporting the support rails. These are typically welded direct to the side rails. The upright for the top link, is it a bolted setup to perhaps easily repair a problem with it? Not sure how much stress there is to that top link support. I have TNT on this tractor, and I experimented with both and found I could change the attitude of the landplane and how it functioned quite a bit. I ALSO heard it popping a bit (all those bolted connections?) I'm thinking at this point, weld the support bars, bolt the top link bracket, and bolt the blades for adjustment reasons. With this TNT, might I be putting more pressure on the support arms and maybe I should add extra plates at their attach points for the support bars?

I haven't priced steel yet, everyone says it's very high right now. Already tried to buy this one, but no dice they are keeping it. I intend to use 1/2" everywhere, except the guests and the runners on the side rails will be 3/8? Large square heavy walled tubes for the support rails, size depends on what is available at what price. I already have the cutting blades, having gotten those in a deal years ago.

Any help anyone can give, I appreciate it.

 

[the whispering oaks farm]

My landpride has the blades flush with the bottom. It works very well that way but my gravel drive is in fair shape so all it is doing is keeping it that way.

 

[TerryR]

I have found UPS trucks, in particular, are hard on it. There are two sections to my driveway, last section is flatter and is starting to settle in a bit now. The first section has two culverts, and the ground rolls a bit, not steep, but certainly not flat either. Coming in after the first culvert is where the UPS trucks tends to dig into the gravel coming up the grade.

That is the nature of UPS trucks on a steep gravel driveway.

The two solutions are to A) stop UPS deliveries or B) be prepared to keep working on the driveway. We've chosen "B."

Sorry I can't help with your landplane questions. I just use a rear blade and it does a great job once you get the hang of using it.

Terry

 

[RDrancher]

It sounds to me like you have too thick of a layer of 3/4". The crushed stone I use to top driveways is 3/4" down to peagravel size. If it's any thicker than 2.5" thick, it doesn't want to pack, even with a vibratory compactor. On anything steep, a compactor actually creates waves. I use roadbase with a lot of fines and top it no thicker than a stone and a half with unwashed crushed stone.

As far as the blade depth of the landplane being setup wrong...it's not. I've seen this problem a bunch. It's the lack of fines in the material. I'd invest in spreading 1-1.5" of fines or a peagravel-to-fines roadbase over the driveway, watering, then compacting. At the end of each run with the landplane, you'll still find it carries some stone, but you can just blend that back in.

 

[Ken45101]

FWIW, I built mine with the blades even with the rails. Mine is for maintaining dirt trails.

 

[ishiboo]

Do you have a box blade? I'd get a box blade first and some crusher run and spread it out. 3/4 being angular will pack (unlike river rock) but it'll pack much better with a lot more fines in it. Let vehicle traffic begin to pack/etc., and then use the box blade on occasion to smooth it out.

With fines you will also get it to be a "solid surface" that does not readily accept free water, so you can get it set up to run the water off.

 

[jcummins]

TerryR....yep, I hate those UPS trucks, and we buy a lot online and get regular deliveries. That's not going to stop.

RDrancher.....yep again, I think indeed... to much gravel, without enough fines. I need to spread some of this out and widen the drive. Really need an angle blade to do that. I think I can do this some with the landplane and using the TNT but it's marginal at best for doing that. Landplane doesn't move gravel sideways enough. Also not sure just how long I can keep this landplane either.

I do not have a box blade, I actually think an angle blade would be best. I do know of one I may be able to borrow, and may try that, is my actions with this landplane don't work out.

Still hoping someone can answer my questions on the build.

 

[jenkinsph]

Agree with others that you need more fines with angular faces and I use crusher fines. Typically I use a base course with 3/4" to fines to build up a road base about 4 inches thick on the edges and higher where the crown is. After packing this down I add a thin layer of clean gravel about "one rock high". Ideally you wan't the top of the gravel on the surface sticking up enough to drive over with a clean surface and the bottom of the gravel seated in the smaller fines to lessen movement. If the layer of clean gravel of 3/4" size is too thick the vehicles will plow through it leaving tracks all the time.


I make adjustments to the top link frequently using a landplane, I don't consider it a set it and forget it tool. My blades are set flush and are tilted back to a 45 degree angle using equal leg angle iron, if you look at your new grader blades you will see that most are ground to 45 degrees, that small flat surface on the bottom of the blades should be set parallel to the ground. As the grader blade wears it will maintain its edge if set up properly. My larger landplane uses heavy flatbar with heavy angle iron reinforcement but is still set at 45 degrees to mount the grader blades correctly. I have found that using angle iron that is 4x4x1/2" and larger for the blade mountings is the easiest thing to use. I use the double edged grader blades 6" wide and 5/8" thick with mounting holes down the center line, you need a 4" angle iron to have the right clearance to mount the blades with the plough bolts.

 

[jenkinsph]

Any reason why you can't use the tractor and landplane perpendicular to the drive to widen and spread the gravel?

 

[jcummins]

Agree with others that you need more fines with angular faces and I use crusher fines. Typically I use a base course with 3/4" to fines to build up a road base about 4 inches thick on the edges and higher where the crown is. After packing this down I add a thin layer of clean gravel about "one rock high". Ideally you wan't the top of the gravel on the surface sticking up enough to drive over with a clean surface and the bottom of the gravel seated in the smaller fines to lessen movement. If the layer of clean gravel of 3/4" size is too thick the vehicles will plow through it leaving tracks all the time.


I make adjustments to the top link frequently using a landplane, I don't consider it a set it and forget it tool. My blades are set flush and are tilted back to a 45 degree angle using equal leg angle iron, if you look at your new grader blades you will see that most are ground to 45 degrees, that small flat surface on the bottom of the blades should be set parallel to the ground. As the grader blade wears it will maintain its edge if set up properly. My larger landplane uses heavy flatbar with heavy angle iron reinforcement but is still set at 45 degrees to mount the grader blades correctly. I have found that using angle iron that is 4x4x1/2" and larger for the blade mountings is the easiest thing to use. I use the double edged grader blades 6" wide and 5/8" thick with mounting holes down the center line, you need a 4" angle iron to have the right clearance to mount the blades with the plough bolts.

Your first paragraph correctly describes what I have. I already talked to the rock man....who has an extremely good reputation in this area....I'm going to talk to him again. But first I need to get some of this gravel spread out. Once spread, I probably will put a 'fine' load on the grade after the culvert.

As to the angle. My 28 front and 55 back is off since it should equal 90. I used an inclinometer app on a smartphone to measure. But...do know the blade is slanted more than your 45....probably more like 35. Would the steeper angle grab more gravel, or less? How far apart are your angle blades? I've pretty much decided I'll drill multiple holes in the mounting plates for the blade supports to give me quarter inch below and above the runners as will as even. And yes, I intend to try and spread this gravel more using different techniques with the TNT.

 

[FredH]

We use 3/4 crushed blue shale on our driveway which somewhat resembles yours , flat to start but goes to 14% grade for last 1/3 of 800+ foot driveway . As noted by others , to much rock without being compacted or rolled , Basically Sucks . Been there , Done That , Just Last Summer .

My blades are angled at 10 degrees with a pitch of 45 .



Old photo's of mine , before completion and after first test run . Added additional bracing , 3 point to back , etc... , just took these after first test before I got to far .

The only way I was able to correct wash boarding in one area that had never experienced problems before , was to scrape off maybe 1/2 a pick up load over about 100' length in trouble spot . Ended up being maybe actually 2 to 2 1/2 bucket loads on my TC 30 of rocked I scraped down and off drive . Problem has not returned since . Truck operator had no gate chains on his truck , thus when he was dumping / spreading and started up the hill , BOOM , rock went from 1.5" / 2" thick to almost 5" . My first passes moved a lot farther uphill , then I moved some all down to the end by highway . Regardless were I spread that other though , it jut ended up being to thick for that given area , So finally it went into the dirt on the side and no issue's since .

Fred H.

 

[jenkinsph]

Your first paragraph correctly describes what I have. I already talked to the rock man....who has an extremely good reputation in this area....I'm going to talk to him again. But first I need to get some of this gravel spread out. Once spread, I probably will put a 'fine' load on the grade after the culvert.

As to the angle. My 28 front and 55 back is off since it should equal 90. I used an inclinometer app on a smartphone to measure. But...do know the blade is slanted more than your 45....probably more like 35. Would the steeper angle grab more gravel, or less? How far apart are your angle blades? I've pretty much decided I'll drill multiple holes in the mounting plates for the blade supports to give me quarter inch below and above the runners as will as even. And yes, I intend to try and spread this gravel more using different techniques with the TNT.

I don't think changing the angle will have much effect on how much gravel you grab. The land plane skids control the amount of bite you get and will be the determining factor, a rear blade would be a different matter.

My blades are set straight on my land planes for lawn and field leveling. That said I think it is important to have the front blade close enough to the leading edge of the skids that tilting forward allows you to get a bite. I don't have the measurements handy as we speak but will guess about 6 inches of the skids protrude in front of the blade. The blades can be set apart about 24 to 36 inches depending on your design without much issue, I don't see this as a critical dimension. As Gordon mentioned clearance between the cross frame above the blade carriers below is more important. You wan't the material to have plenty of clearance to pass over the blade carriers.

For a home owner build without commercial use and the main focus on your driveway maintenance I would build a simple land plane. With the blades angled and set about 1/4" below the skids or flush. Since the plough bolts are 5/8" size it would be hard to make fine adjustments using multiple holes as these would have to be too far apart on centers vertically. You might also consider building it with the blades lower to try it out and then add the proper thickness of wear strips on the skids to fine tune. My first land plane was built with the blades set 1/4" below the skids, after using it for a few hours I decided to set the blades flush and added the 1/4" wear strips to bring the blades flush.

Planning and research is important but I wouldn't over think this. My thoughts after 5 years of use are that weight is important, having a rigid non flexing frame and having long enough skids are key. I use topntilt to adjust my land plane and it helps a lot.

 

[Whiskey Sniffer]

Regarding the UPS trucks we have deliveries 3 to 4 times a week and the trucks were destroying my asphalt drive, we now have a box at the end of the drive where all deliveries are made. Works great!

 

[jcummins]

Regarding the UPS trucks we have deliveries 3 to 4 times a week and the trucks were destroying my asphalt drive, we now have a box at the end of the drive where all deliveries are made. Works great!

I might consider that, what kind of box?

 

[jcummins]

Early after I first got this landplane, I put the forward point in the middle of the drive and tried to roll the rock …. Spreading the rock and widen the drive. It work…kind of…but not as well as I hoped. Today I tried that again, but this time I got aggressive. Using the tilt, lowered the center side a little, and loaded the landplane near full….tried to keep it that way. Had to feather the 3pt up/down a lot….but it worked, fairly well too. Bottom line, I figure out the landplane CAN be used to move rock sideways. AND…it does a very good job of leveling everything out. Looks a lot better. I’ll make another stab at buying this one, if not….I’ll be trying to get the metal this next week and get the project started. I know now, it is the attachment I need.

I also learned the reason for so much rock. This drive was built and paid for by the former owner….part of the purchase deal of this house. Well the drive was built to narrow…non intentional I think….but some mis communication between the dozer guy and the one paying for it (former owner). I complained about this, so the former owner had the rock man put more rock than normal on this drive with the intention of spreading it out and widen the drive. It was never done….not sure the reason. I never knew that…..but explains the ‘too much rock’ and the conditions we had this winter. But mute point now, since I did it. Actually both the former owner…and the rock guy….I like them both....good guys...so not really upset about this. On to the project.

 

[Whiskey Sniffer]

I might consider that, what kind of box?

Just a cheap plastic box from Home Depot hidden from the street view. You could build something and pad lock it I suppose the possibilities are endless.

 

[captjack]

I built mine with a heavy 1/2 in angle across the back so I could hang tractor weights on it for extra weight. having a few hundred more lbs holding it down seems to work good for me - I sold that one when I got my bigger tractor - I have metal in the shop to build two more and will work on it soon

 

[the whispering oaks farm]

I've added a 200 gal. water tank on to my landpride land plane, I needed a fire truck/portable water tender/additional weight. I will be adding a roller pump and a hose reel. I can add as much, or as little water as I need to be my counterweight. doubles as a water can for all the outlying fruit trees on my farm. I will be able to drop a hose into my pond to fill the tank, then switch a couple valves to change the direction of flow to do any spraying. It will also help when dragging the gravel drive in the summertime with the dust.

 

[jcummins]

The blades I have are 8ft long. What's everyone's opinion of making this 8ft wide versus 7ft? It would avoid cutting these which I bet are extremely hard.

Right now, 8ft seems too wide, not for the tractor but for the drive. Actually 6ft would be better for the drive, but need 7ft to cover the tractor tires.

Right now thinking I'll stick to 7ft.

 

[The Fred]

I have an 8 foot land plane similar to the one you show in your pix Jcummins. My drive is steep and BAD to the bone but after 27 years there we have laid down many loads of crusher run and the key to keeping it down is rolling it just after grading. The roller is one of my most used implements. The roller pushes the stones down in and the gravel lays out smooth as glass and the drive seems to stay better longer.

Regards, Fred