Hill Climbing Primer

[CalG]

]Matching downward force on the ring gear face and bearings.] Net effect Zero

net effect ZERO! Ahhh!

The voice of reason.

 

[SPYDERLK]

(With a little scrutiny it can be noted that within the consolidated chassis every up force has a corresponding down force.)

Do a summation of forces and remember the torque figures in.

What torque beyond that already accounted for?

 

[Egon]

The tractor is capable of rotating around the rear axle by the rotational forces on the pinion!

Dem levers mentioned also rotate on the back axle.

Must perplexing trying to educate an uneducated farm boy when he don't know squat eh?

(removed) would have the answere!

 

[vtsnowedin]

Take a look at this.
Tractor wheelie - YouTube

 

[SPYDERLK]

Take a look at this.
Tractor wheelie - YouTube

Very high pull point. He should lower it a little bit because the traction gain of weight transfer does not increase after the front rises ... and the tip resistance decreases as it goes up. Makes it less stable. The offseting performance advantage of this dangerous hi wheelie setup is that if youre skillful you can jerk as the front falls after every save. This quick arrest thrusts the drive wheels down harder momentarily. :thumbsup:
larry

 

[SPYDERLK]

The tractor is capable of rotating around the rear axle by the rotational forces on the pinion!

Dem levers mentioned also rotate on the back axle.

Must perplexing trying to educate an uneducated farm boy when he don't know squat eh?

(removed) would have the answere!

Still harping on that wrong perspective I see.

 

[Egon]

Still harping on that wrong perspective I see.

Nope; never harp!:thumbsup:

But I do watch wrong perspective's. And try and give reasonable explanations.:thumbsup:

 

[ovrszd]

No. You are misinterpreting your experiences. That easy explanation is wrong. Its the combination of drive lever and load lever as explained in prior posts.-- And on hills the position and height of the center of mass becomes much more important than in level situations because it affects the load lever.
larry.

Again, no flame intended. What I've explained happens everytime you step on the gas to move your rear axle driven vehicle forward, whether it's a tractor, car, truck, buggy, ATV, whatever. It's a natural reaction to the effort it requires to propel the vehicle. First thing that happens is the pinion tries to climb the ring gear, which in turn lightens the front of the vehicle. That's why dragsters do wheelies. It's also why my buggy will tip over backwards if this torque is wrongly applied. I've saw buggies destroy their suspension without moving because the torque applied and traction attained was greater than the strength of the suspension setup.

Unlike you Larry, I will not proclaim that you are "wrong" as you have done to me. We might even be agreeing, just using different terminology. But I am not "wrong".

 

[CalG]

Again, no flame intended. What I've explained happens everytime you step on the gas to move your rear axle driven vehicle forward, whether it's a tractor, car, truck, buggy, ATV, whatever. It's a natural reaction to the effort it requires to propel the vehicle. First thing that happens is the pinion tries to climb the ring gear, which in turn lightens the front of the vehicle. That's why dragsters do wheelies. It's also why my buggy will tip over backwards if this torque is wrongly applied. I've saw buggies destroy their suspension without moving because the torque applied and traction attained was greater than the strength of the suspension setup.

It is a mis-observation to attribute the lightening of the front end of any vehicle with the "climbing action" of a pinion on a ring.

Again, weld the axle shaft to the housing, apply engine power, and describe the result on the tractor.
The pinion still tries to climb the ring, that is true. But, the tractor shows NOTHING of it. All reaction is taken out withing the gear box.

An accurate description of cause and effect will be less confusing. And the only external forces are concentrated at the point where the tires touch the ground.

An observation: The Fordson E27n has large, direction reversing bull gears for each axle within the rear end. does this direction reversing mechanism cause the pinion gear to push the tractors front end down? Hmmm, now that would be a great feature if it were true.

Question? What is the resulting action of the pinion climbing effect on the front wheel drive axle of a "typical" SUV or similar. That is a RWD vehicle with MECHANICAL front wheel drive ?
(Just like a Four wheel drive tractor. Where does the "pinion climbing the ring action" show it's self? I've never been able to abserve it, only that the tires spin on slippery surfaces just like the rears do.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Again, no flame intended. What I've explained happens everytime you step on the gas to move your rear axle driven vehicle forward, whether it's a tractor, car, truck, buggy, ATV, whatever. It's a natural reaction to the effort it requires to propel the vehicle. First thing that happens is the pinion tries to climb the ring gear, which in turn lightens the front of the vehicle. That's why dragsters do wheelies. It's also why my buggy will tip over backwards if this torque is wrongly applied. I've saw buggies destroy their suspension without moving because the torque applied and traction attained was greater than the strength of the suspension setup.

Unlike you Larry, I will not proclaim that you are "wrong" as you have done to me. We might even be agreeing, just using different terminology. But I am not "wrong".

That easy explanation is wrong and is adhered to by many because it offers an attractive analogy. I didnt say you originated it. Im not blaming you for it. I blame tthe person that originated it -- lost, but still causing trouble by thwarting valid analysis. ... Im just showing that it is a mistake in resolving forces. Im sorry that you feel compelled to declare yourself not wrong.
larry