For us do-it-yourselfers, BUY USA video. Excellent stuff.
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Renze
Elite Member
Off course buy USA doesnt apply to me as a European, but its the truth. Not just governmental regulations and taxes make conditions for business, consumers too: Jobs went to china because we wanted the cheapest price for what we buy, and sell our own labour for the highest wages... Free markets will wander towards the cheapest producers unless import regulations are applied. The free market system that once made America a superpower within 100 years of its existence (a world history record !) is now working against them.
Where i work, most of the spring rolling and pressing is automated to reduce labour, and simple pressings and castings are outsourced because foundries need HUGE amounts of energy to heat the material, and energy isnt taxed in China, they just pollute as they wish... Our Western world life standard, worker safety and environmental protection standards are working against us, as the Chinese are willing to lowball because they accept a lower wage, life standard, worker safety and environmental protection. And yes, chinese workers dont have anything to choose, as they live like cattle and spend their spare time in factory owned housing, with little privacy and all such things that make Western life good... I dont envy them.
kubotakid USA
Silver Member
What renzel said,...:thumbsup:
Last edited:
Ed of all trades
Elite Member
I know what he said is true, I just have a hard time paying over 2 times the money for what is really the same product. Not all the difference is production costs, some is just greed. I can't afford to pay for greed.:confused3:
BHD
Veteran Member
yea try finding USA made product.
I have tried to buy USA, and a few years ago I order a (to my knowing) a USA made product (OTC tools)and nearly double the cost of the import product, and when I get it.
IT was an IMPORT as well, I just spent double for the import with the USA company name,
I ordered another product form the same company "OTC" a few weeks ago, poorly assembled tool, IMO the cost was competitive to the other import product or nearly.
there are few if any power tools that are USA made, most in China, and then Mexico,
take "Techtronic Industries Company" for example, TTI | Our Brands
and when it comes to hand tools (wrenches and that type of thing), name a USA manufacture that one can afford, I like SK tools but is kinda of hard to spend more on one wrench than a set of import that carries s a life time guarantee, and it is no hassle walk in give them the old broken tool and walk out with new, and with SK it is a three month process and is denied over 50% of the time around here, (they send it in to some company inspection place).
and the thing is the import stuff is becoming much better in quality that what it was 20 years ago,
20 years ago Harbor freight stuff was next to junk, to day it is not bad, and usually preforms well for it price range,
(over the years, last 11) we had a youth work week with our church, we would buy HF tools so if lost not a major $$ loss, all the tools I would say preformed as designed and have lasted many years,
at one time you bought there hammer and the head would come off in a week, or the handle would loose it rubber cushion grip, now a excellent hammer for the money, no there not a Plumb hammer, that would sell for $35, but still have $3.50 HF hammer I am using in the pasture pickup and tractors that are 10 years old,
and like I said unless I buy used tools I can not find many NEW USA MADE TOOLS, even if I wanted to buy them,
BUY USA is a great Idea, but you have to have manufactures that work towards that goal as well, and offer products that have that Value,
and if the tool is assembled in the USA many times the parts it is made out of is not,
I have tried to buy USA, and a few years ago I order a (to my knowing) a USA made product (OTC tools)and nearly double the cost of the import product, and when I get it.
IT was an IMPORT as well, I just spent double for the import with the USA company name,
I ordered another product form the same company "OTC" a few weeks ago, poorly assembled tool, IMO the cost was competitive to the other import product or nearly.
there are few if any power tools that are USA made, most in China, and then Mexico,
take "Techtronic Industries Company" for example, TTI | Our Brands
and when it comes to hand tools (wrenches and that type of thing), name a USA manufacture that one can afford, I like SK tools but is kinda of hard to spend more on one wrench than a set of import that carries s a life time guarantee, and it is no hassle walk in give them the old broken tool and walk out with new, and with SK it is a three month process and is denied over 50% of the time around here, (they send it in to some company inspection place).
and the thing is the import stuff is becoming much better in quality that what it was 20 years ago,
20 years ago Harbor freight stuff was next to junk, to day it is not bad, and usually preforms well for it price range,
(over the years, last 11) we had a youth work week with our church, we would buy HF tools so if lost not a major $$ loss, all the tools I would say preformed as designed and have lasted many years,
at one time you bought there hammer and the head would come off in a week, or the handle would loose it rubber cushion grip, now a excellent hammer for the money, no there not a Plumb hammer, that would sell for $35, but still have $3.50 HF hammer I am using in the pasture pickup and tractors that are 10 years old,
and like I said unless I buy used tools I can not find many NEW USA MADE TOOLS, even if I wanted to buy them,
BUY USA is a great Idea, but you have to have manufactures that work towards that goal as well, and offer products that have that Value,
and if the tool is assembled in the USA many times the parts it is made out of is not,
Sysop
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I don't think we "shipped the jobs" overseas as much as the world of manufacturing has evolved around us. We still tend to think assembly line work are "high paying jobs" when engineers have engineered all the skill out of it. Assembly line factory jobs are not the high paying lifetime careers they used to be, and shouldn't be. McDonalds is an assembly line (and even they pay too much). Chimps can be trained that the square peg does not fit in the round hole and part A and part B go together...
Engineering, technology, the things that make manufacturing possible, those are the high paying skilled trades we need more workers to fulfill. Who cares if China is assembling all the things we design and have built as long as we are the designers and ones having it built. If we design things and have them built to our standards where the labor is cheapest, that means more profit is able to come home to us. If untrained assembly line workers here wish to compete for those minimal skill jobs, more power to them. If we can get things built here for the same or similar cost, we save in shipping the stuff from there to here.
The American worker needs to change their goals, or if nothing else their expectations. We can't pay McDonald's workers $8 an hour, it will be the death of the dollar menu... McDonalds isn't a career, it is something for a high-school kid to have some spending money or save up for a car to have to drive while in college or to pay for the gas and whatnot while in college. There is a difference between collecting a wage and earning a living, sadly most folk can't see a difference and expect parity... end rant...
Engineering, technology, the things that make manufacturing possible, those are the high paying skilled trades we need more workers to fulfill. Who cares if China is assembling all the things we design and have built as long as we are the designers and ones having it built. If we design things and have them built to our standards where the labor is cheapest, that means more profit is able to come home to us. If untrained assembly line workers here wish to compete for those minimal skill jobs, more power to them. If we can get things built here for the same or similar cost, we save in shipping the stuff from there to here.
The American worker needs to change their goals, or if nothing else their expectations. We can't pay McDonald's workers $8 an hour, it will be the death of the dollar menu... McDonalds isn't a career, it is something for a high-school kid to have some spending money or save up for a car to have to drive while in college or to pay for the gas and whatnot while in college. There is a difference between collecting a wage and earning a living, sadly most folk can't see a difference and expect parity... end rant...
paulharvey
Veteran Member
Mostly agree here. When you here about union auto workers making $20+/hr to put a few screws in a radio, the same radio, a few hundred times per day it makes you scratch your head. True skilled labor demands higher pay then idiot work.
I'm not arguing against every worker getting what they can, while they can, but manufacturing needs to shed these high wage, low skill type jobs.
They can do it in several ways:
a) have it built by border line slave labor in china;
b) move to right to work states and hire Americans who actually want to work for $12/hr;
c) out source high labor parts and keep the assembly here;
d) die a long slow miserable death.
Edit; another option: lobby political cronies to try to legislate competition.
In the US manufacturers face several disadvantages (high wages, high taxes, and high regulations) and some advantages (reliable energy, good infrastructure/logistics) Setting up shop in PRC, vietnam, India, etc also has advantages (cheap labor, plentiful skilled labor [India at least], pro business goverments, and less environmental BS) and disadvantages (unreliable energy, poor infrastructure, logistical challenges, massive corruption). The challenge of the US, and I guess the rest of the first world, is to make our strengths improve faster then the 3rd and 2nd world make there disadvantages disappear.
Redneck in training
Elite Member
Chinese will steal your design. I flew to Hong Kong several years back. Guy sitting by me told me a story how is company moved manufacturing of air powered hand tools to China and almost went bankrupt. They found a manufacturer in China that could make complete tools. They closed factory in the USA and all looked pretty good until very similar somewhat better tools Made in China hit the market for much lower price. After the manufacturer of their tools acquired all the knowhow it built another factory and produced the tools under their brand. To save the company from bankruptcy they had to invest in designing new products and hire a guy from Taiwan familiar with the way of doing business in China to manage the Chinese operation. No single factory made more than two parts and was not told what it is for, the parts were collected and assembled into "kits" that were shipped to India for final assembly. There was no saving.
If you want to sell anything high tech to China you have to tell them how it works in great details (It is called "Technology transfer"). Then they will buy few things from you and later become your competitor. Here is a school example how it is done: Did China steal Japan’s high-speed train? - Fortune
paulharvey
Veteran Member
You ate absolutely right about this aspect of it. The PRC is not playing on an equal field. They manipulate their money to promote cheap exports, and prevent imports. The labor rates aren't only cheap in PRC, several other countries can compete on labor. I really would like to see the US government relax environmental regs, taxes, and outlaw unions; to allow the US to compete. Sure, we won't do 100% of our own manufacturing, but at least then we can throw out a competitive bid. China and India are rapidly improving there logistics, infrastructure, and power grid; and they have skilled, plentiful labor, hungry for the work. We, as a country, have to be able to compete. We can't just say "buy American" for quality, because we can turn out crap product just as well as China can make quality products.
Blade Breaker
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Lets all work for little or no wages in dangerous environments. Lets start in your town and see how it goes. How about instead of sinking to their level we either raise taxes on imported items that are not manufactured with the same standards that we require here, or ban them entirely. Talk about a way to improve the environment and living standards around the entire world.