Town LOST my Tax Files!

[zing]

I got an interesting story about taxes - it won't help your case, but --- So my aunt is researching our family heritage (Norwegian) and runs into a tax assessment and associated documents dated 1641. The kings assessors are counting sheep, pigs, cows, indentured servants, indentured servant's mud huts, etc and comes up with the numbers. My grandfather, 10-12 generations removed - has a huge battle with them because many of the livestock are not his but the neighbors. They are grazing on my grandfathers land - with or without approval??? They insist that he will pay the tax on them - they are on his land, so they are obviously his. He finally says - OK, they are mine. He contacts the neighbor and tells the neighbor all the animals are his - by order of the king. The battle begins - my grandfather, the assessors and the neighbor.

Sooo - - the evil doings of tax assessors has a well documented history. I don't think my grandfather was such a fine fellow either - found what, he thought, was an easy way to increase his herds. No documents on the outcome but this is for sure - somebody paid the taxes on the animals and my grandfather & the neighbor weren't such good friends anymore - if they ever were.

Another thought - it was tax time, the animals were purposefully on my grandfathers land so the neighbor wouldn't have to pay taxes on them.

LMAO! Love that story! An interesting look at a time when life was very different, but people were still the same.

 

[oldpilgrim]

I'm so damned mad at being taxed to death. A tax is a permit issued you by the govt. If you don't pay for the permission, you don't get to have/keep something or do something. It's gotten so now EVERYTHING is permitted by way of a tax. We can do virtually nothing without the .gov's permission.

If you don't think it's a permit, try doing/buying/keeping something and tell them you're not paying the tax and see what happens.

rant over.

In Ma, if you refuse to let the assessor in/on your property, they can, by law, assign what they feel is a just evaluation and you have no legal right to contest it...whatever it is.

Dunno about VT, but being run by the same class of politicians as Ma, I'd bet they have a similar law.

 

[newbury]

OP -

Given the situation, what would any of you do in my shoes?

ASSUMing they were legitmate

Turns out we know the second guy of the two;

You should do more research on

the people who had been doing the assessor work for the town previously suddenly left the office

. Had they been assessing people/property to low? To high?
What do they assess on?
Do you have details on all your prior assessments?

If they lose your assessment it's their fault and they have no right to yank you around and raise your taxes.

Back about 20 years ago I had a van I spent about 8 or 10 thousand on, new. The county sent me, and I paid, a tax bill every year based on a $6K purchase price. After about 5 years they sent me a letter saying they thought they had undertaxed me and demanding documentation of the actual purchase price. I had lost it. Whoops. They continued to tax me on the $6K.

 

[Coyote machine]

Why the excitement? So, someone lost your records. I don't think that is something to get worked up about and look for revenge.

Who said I'm excited? Worked up or looking for revenge? My taxes PAY the town's listers to do their job and to keep accurate records, currently on paper, with possible data files as back-up, can't say for sure- NOT my job!


You've never lost something? You would be willing to pay more taxes to improve the handling and security of town records?

Duh:confused2: that's what they're attempting to do now, because they were so screwed up to begin with, many people were/are being charged totally arbitrary amounts, in fact at one time the lister's asked US what we thought our property was worth.

As long as you verify that the people doing the assessment are legit, I don't see an issue. If they are legit, I seriously doubt that they don't have a legal right under state law to inspect your property for assessment purposes.

Duh again; I don't have a problem with town lister's doing their job; so long as if they ask me to call them, they give me time to get in touch with them, (which I was in process of doing, as they had stated in their voicemail), when they arrived at my doorstep 1/2 hour later for the 2nd unannounced visit in a week.
They said they came to apologize for the lost records, which seems to have happened to numerous other property owner's in addition to me.

As a taxpayer I have a right to expect a certain level of competence from those assigning taxes on my property, and the right to expect them to keep crucial tax docs safe and up to date.

If you think the assessment is too high, you won't get anywhere with an abatement request without a detailed assessment inspection.

WRONG: they used to tax me on my view. It grew in with trees, so I asked them time and again to adjust it and if not then visit to assess during the summer when the trees are in full leaf.
They removed the view assessment entirely- just by asking.

If property taxes rankle you, fighting with the assessor representative will not fix that. All you are doing is driving up the costs for everyone else by wasting peoples' time.

Again, wrong. I'm not fighting with anyone, and getting my assessment done right is their JOB, which is not wasting anyone's time. The time spent doing the job of assessing each property takes whatever time it takes, less time if the records are kept properly.
In fact I just opened a letter signed by the listers, saying they had found and reviewed my file, and they don't have a floor plan for my properties, and are REQUESTING a site visit at my convenience.

 

[dave1949]

Again, wrong. I'm not fighting with anyone, and getting my assessment done right is their JOB, which is not wasting anyone's time. The time spent doing the job of assessing each property takes whatever time it takes, less time if the records are kept properly.
In fact I just opened a letter signed by the listers, saying they had found and reviewed my file, and they don't have a floor plan for my properties, and are REQUESTING a site visit at my convenience.

You still sound exited to me. :laughing: Look at your thread title: LOST and ending with !

Yes, it will cost you more to get a better level of service. If the town was willing to spend the money on a full-time professional who kept things organized and secure, and not make arbitrary assessments and guesstimates, you would pay for it in taxes. Instead, many towns go with the low bidder, or poorly paid town clerk, who may or may not make a mess out the process, or disappear as yours apparently did.

I'm not defending them, but that is the reality many folks deal with in small NE towns. You get what you are willing to pay for, fits here. In fact your records were not lost, and no capable professional would have told you they were if they weren't.

The comment about fighting with the assessors was a response to other posts more than yours. There is only one way to lower property taxes and that is by reducing the town budget. Anything else is useless posturing that is a waste of everyone's time.

I apologize if I got the wrong impression from your post, it sounded like you were exited over what I would consider normal trials and tribulations that happen now and then. I wish you luck. We had a town-wide reval this spring and I will find out in September how excited I should be. :laughing:

 

[Sigarms]

I assume you're writing about the town's Listers.

I'm appealing my assessment now (also a Vermonter, BTW). During the BCA appeal, the Lister made certain statements (under oath, mind you) as facts that were later found to be either supposition or out and out fabrications.
Personally, I wouldn't left them on the property....they can do a drive by.

Roy

On our one trip to Vermont a couple years ago, it was a first for our one boy (to the state), so I took him to Ben and Jerry's for a tour. At the end of the tour, for the question and answer session, a guy raised up his hand and asked (in a nice Texas drawel) "I'm from Texas, and we just moved back to my wifes home state of Vermont, and I can't figure out why a quart of Ben and Jerry's costs more in Vermont than it does in Texas?"

Your house is worth a million bucks, get over it

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Fishy, fishy, really fishy... You had better pray to God the town minstrels don't screw this up. Just doesn't sound kosher to me...

 

[teejk]

Just a guess...one of your neighbors is contesting his/her assessment. Assessment records are public records so they know what you are assessed at and are using you as an example of why theirs is too high. I've seen it before...they either get reduced and you stay the same or you get increased and they stay the same. If I'm correct then be prepared to pay more...towns HATE to reduce assessed values (and will get even if they are forced to...I learned that fact the hard way).

 

[hawkeye08]

I don't trust the lot of them. They do what they want and unless you have lots of time and money to fight it, you are stuck paying the high taxes. I will never let them in my house or shop, the permits were issued, inspections done at time of building the structures.

 

[Coyote machine]

OP -

ASSUMing they were legitmate

You should do more research on . Had they been assessing people/property to low? To high?
What do they assess on?

Weegie board?!

Do you have details on all your prior assessments?

Not yet. but I plan to shortly. I will not allow the cretans in charge to screw up my data, from this point forward.

If they lose your assessment it's their fault and they have no right to yank you around and raise your taxes.

Can I get that in writing!:confused2:

Back about 20 years ago I had a van I spent about 8 or 10 thousand on, new. The county sent me, and I paid, a tax bill every year based on a $6K purchase price. After about 5 years they sent me a letter saying they thought they had undertaxed me and demanding documentation of the actual purchase price. I had lost it. Whoops. They continued to tax me on the $6K.

You still sound exited to me. :laughing: Look at your thread title: LOST and ending with !

That's to grab poster's attention and get replies....

Yes, it will cost you more to get a better level of service. If the town was willing to spend the money on a full-time professional who kept things organized and secure, and not make arbitrary assessments and guesstimates, you would pay for it in taxes. Instead, many towns go with the low bidder, or poorly paid town clerk, who may or may not make a mess out the process, or disappear as yours apparently did.

Town lister's disappeared because the townsfolk was/is tired of idiots at the helm, and are replacing the old guard with supposedly better, more able ones. Time will tell.


I'm not defending them, but that is the reality many folks deal with in small NE towns. You get what you are willing to pay for, fits here. In fact your records were not lost, and no capable professional would have told you they were if they weren't.

On this we agree; that's why I told them to pound salt and stop wasting MY time and go back to the town records and find mine! Surprise, surprise, they did. But, for the record if something can't be found, it's lost until it is found, if ever. In this case they and I got lucky and they found my 'misplaced' files.

The comment about fighting with the assessors was a response to other posts more than yours. There is only one way to lower property taxes and that is by reducing the town budget. Anything else is useless posturing that is a waste of everyone's time.

I apologize if I got the wrong impression from your post, it sounded like you were exited over what I would consider normal trials and tribulations that happen now and then. I wish you luck. We had a town-wide reval this spring and I will find out in September how excited I should be. :laughing:

Apology accepted. It's often hard to tell where the thread OP is coming from just by text alone. Mostly I'm irked by VT's taxes across the board, and this type of nonsense just chews up time I don't have to throw away.
AND, I'm remodeling my upstairs bath as we speak, so having the listers here when I have a contractor's truck/trailer in the driveway isn't helping either.