Soldering a Ball Valve without Damaging the Seat ?

[MarkF48]

I just tried sweating some fittings with no success after doing it successfully for 30 years... Something's different now. I bought some Lennox lead free solder and paste, cleaned the fittings with emery paper and wire brushes... after soldering, you could still pull them apart with your bare hands! The solder wouldn't flow between the joints at all.

I've heard a few things about the lead free solder that it's not as easy to make a good solid joint with, doesn't flow well. Haven't actually tried any, so I don't have any real experience with it.

 

[mbohuntr]

The plumber I trained with didn't take them apart either. I do because I don't do it for a living, and it's cheap insurance you won't screw it up.

 

[mbohuntr]

I've heard a few things about the lead free solder that it's not as easy to make a good solid joint with, doesn't flow well. Haven't actually tried any, so I don't have any real experience with it.

Never had a problem with it until now??? I plumbed several houses w/lead free and had no issues. Getting cheap with the tin?

 

[JRobyn]

I have only had a problem if I've tried to RE-SOLDER a previously used valve. Probably because it takes a bit more heat to remove the original pipe. Like others, I've not had a problem with new ball valves. Also agree that it is good to use a MAPP torch or at least a propane with a burn pattern designed for soldering plumbing so that you can heat as quickly as possible. Try to mostly heat the pipe just to the point of good solder flow.

I also really like the Apollo/Conbraco "PipeMaster" valves http://www.apollovalves.com/_products/69bv/SS_69BV_1124.pdf that have flanges on each end with O-ringed adapters that come in threaded, sweat, CPVC, etc. I got mine at Lowes, but not sure if they carry them anymore. I used them exclusively on the new house. Cost just a little bit more, but now if I ever get a leaky valve in a critical place, I can just unscrew the leaker and replace with no soldering. And you are only heating the adapter piece with no "soft" parts when you are soldering them in.

- Jay

 

[/pine]

Never had a problem with ball valves...the only valves I dissemble are ones with seats and rubber washers like lav., WC stops etc...

FWIW...The biggest mistake novices make is not using the heat to draw the solider...i.e., on vertical sweats apply the heat at the top of the joint...this will draw the solider upward...another common mistake is using too much solider...I've seen stops that are so full of solider that they won't close...

 

[kenmac]

I have soldered many ball valves over my 35 yrs. I've never damaged 1.. I either use heat paste or a wet rag around the valve. If I were to take apart every ball valve, it would take forever to complete a plumbing job

 

[Raspy]

It's completely unnecessary to take them apart. Waste of time.

I have literally sweated in hundreds of them and never had a problem. Use water soluble flux. Just go ahead and sweat it in, use the proper amount of heat, apply it to draw the solder as the solder flows toward heat. No wet rags needed. Once the solder sets, spray the joint with a spray bottle that has some detergent in water. Wipe off the water with a damp rag and you're done.

I always set the handle to half open during the process. Always use lead free solder in potable water systems. It takes a bit of getting used to if you are familiar with lead solder, but it works very well and makes a stronger joint than lead.

I would not use the push together fittings for a permanent system or where they cannot be reached, like in walls.

 

[ozley]

It's completely unnecessary to take them apart. Waste of time. I have literally sweated in hundreds of them and never had a problem. Use water soluble flux. Just go ahead and sweat it in, use the proper amount of heat, apply it to draw the solder as the solder flows toward heat. No wet rags needed. Once the solder sets, spray the joint with a spray bottle that has some detergent in water. Wipe off the water with a damp rag and you're done. I always set the handle to half open during the process. Always use lead free solder in potable water systems. It takes a bit of getting used to if you are familiar with lead solder, but it works very well and makes a stronger joint than lead. I would not use the push together fittings for a permanent system or where they cannot be reached, like in walls.

You get my vote.

 

[MarkF48]

Did a bit of research...

Some of my concern was what the associate in the the plumbing department where I bought the valves had told me about the valve. He had said the seat was of a "durable nylon plastic". Found this to be sort of incorrect and misleading and the seat and stem packing are of PTFE, which has a melting point of 620F (326C). Lead free plumbing solder from what I could find is somewhere in the ballpark of 450F - 464F melting range, so I'm thinking the seat and stem packing should be relatively safe so long as I'm careful with the heat. I'm pre-assembling the valve, pipe, and a "T" on the work bench, so I can heat sink the body of the valve easily and wrap in a wet rag as well. I'm thinking if I solder the piece in an upright position the heat will flow upwards away from the valve and also allow the solder to flow into the joint more easily. No dis-assembly needed.

The store associate had suggested push together valves and they may work fine, but I just couldn't convince myself that they wouldn't leak.

 

[lilranch2001]

I don't like, nor trust the "shark tooth" push lock fittings.
Plus I thoroughly like to solder copper.

As far as I am concerned there is no better looking plumbing system than a well engineered and soldered copper sweated system