Pond Renovation

[TnWV]

I have a decent size pond on my property. A family member had it put in over 30 years ago, and in 1997, we had it cleaned up and made it a little bigger. It has always lost a couple feet of water by the end of summer, but last few years, it just hasnt fully recovered through the winter, and this year, it not only did it not recover, but it drained down close to 15 ft from the top. Every time it would rain heavy you could see it go up a foot or 2, but within a couple of days it was back down again.

At this point it is clear that it is leaking pretty bad. I beleive the cause to be one of two reasons, or both. One, I believe the level it drains down to and stops is the original pond level, so most likely, the contractor that enlarged it in 1997, did not use good clay and/or did not pack it in small lifts. I actually can remember seeing one side of the dam being built up 2-3 feet and then moving on to the other side. Second, some trees had grown up on the back of the dam, and the roots could have penetrated into the water. Either way, its leaking and needs fixed.

I had a reputable pond builder in my area come take a look and he agrees with the possible causes. His plan to fix it is to dig all of the muck out and take the dam down a few feet. Then he will pull good clay out of the hill side to build the dam back up and line the entire pond with the good clay. Probably 2 feet of clay on the front of the dam, and atleast a foot on the rest. He will be clearing all trees/brush from around the pond and behind it, as well as building the back of the dam into a reasonable slope so that I can keep it mowed. He will also be cleaning up the spring that feeds the pond and leaving a nice swale for it to flow into the pond, and create a sufficient spill way. He will get started as soon as the forecast shows 4-5 days without rain. Hopefully in the next week or two.

Also, before he can start, I have to drain the pond. My plan Was to rent a 3" trash pump, and try to collect the fish as the pond drained and move them to a neighbors pond. I started that this past weekend and will post my progress and those pictures later tonight or tomorrow.

The attached photo's show the pond before any draining started.



Here is the back of the dam.


Its hard to believe from the pictures, but I use to keep this pond nice and mowed/weedeated, and had begun taking some of the trees out. Once I realized it was leaking and I needed a dozer/excavator in to repair, I kind of let it go. Hopefully it will turn out nice and I can keep it clean again. We really enjoy having a place to fish, and our future hom will be built at the top of the hill behind it, so its time to ge it looking good again.

 

[johnking]

Pond boss forum if you have not been there already.

 

[TnWV]

Pond boss forum if you have not been there already.

I have browsed pond boss a little, but haven't spent a great desk of time there. I'll try to browse around a little more.

 

[boggen]

pondboss as already mentioned deals more with mud/clay ponds.

www.koiphen.com deals more with liner ponds. you may find descent luck in how to capture the fish, and how to deal with the fish temporarily on koiphen ((from bowling the fish, netting the fish, using a cheap swimming pool to temp hold fish, to other))

as far as draining it.... SIPHON!!! woot woot. quick and cheapest way....

get 2 milk crate, get a Tee fitting, some wire and a drill bit. place Tee on pipe end that goes into lake. drill some holes into the Tee. and wire some milk crates around the Tee. this should help keep the bigger fish from going bye bye.

from tee. run pipe up onto shore were you can place a valve.
at highest point (over dam) place a TEE and point the Tee upwards (put a plug in it, for pressure testing 1 to 5 bucks at any local hardware store)
run pipe as far as you can down on other side of dam. the further you get it the better. (below bottom of water in the pond preferred to completely drain it down).
at the very bottom place another valve.

shut both valves, take the plug out "top of dam" and fill the entire pipe with water. getting all the air out.
put the plug in, and tighten it down good. then open up both valves. and let the siphon begin!!!

after a few minutes you may want to shut the very bottom valve first, then the valve inside the pond. and then pull the plug at top of dam, to see if you need to add any more water. if all is good put plug back in. and open the valves and let it go.

preferable a "round saucer snow sled" can be used under the "milk crates" with some wire between saucer sled and crates. to act like a sled to push everything out across the mud and into deeper water. if you have long enough string/rope. that may aid you better by pulling the end of pipe into deepest part of the lake.

if your using sch40 or like pipe, then suggest you buy "fernco fittings" (name brand) it is the rubber fittings for pvc pipe. with pipe clamps. it costs a little more but lets you pull everything apart and add/subtract more pipe. if need be. and change things around if something happens mid way through changing the pond.

if you are using hose un coil it, and straighten out as much as you can with a rock or board selectively placed, and let the sun warm it up for a few hours. it should help in trying to push it out into the pond and keeping the hose from trying to coil back up on you.

=======
been there done that... not redoing the clay, but draining the lakes here, when the overflow pipes have clogged solid :/

 

[TnWV]

pondboss as already mentioned deals more with mud/clay ponds. www.koiphen.com deals more with liner ponds. you may find descent luck in how to capture the fish, and how to deal with the fish temporarily on koiphen ((from bowling the fish, netting the fish, using a cheap swimming pool to temp hold fish, to other)) as far as draining it.... SIPHON!!! woot woot. quick and cheapest way.... get 2 milk crate, get a Tee fitting, some wire and a drill bit. place Tee on pipe end that goes into lake. drill some holes into the Tee. and wire some milk crates around the Tee. this should help keep the bigger fish from going bye bye. from tee. run pipe up onto shore were you can place a valve. at highest point (over dam) place a TEE and point the Tee upwards (put a plug in it, for pressure testing 1 to 5 bucks at any local hardware store) run pipe as far as you can down on other side of dam. the further you get it the better. (below bottom of water in the pond preferred to completely drain it down). at the very bottom place another valve. shut both valves, take the plug out "top of dam" and fill the entire pipe with water. getting all the air out. put the plug in, and tighten it down good. then open up both valves. and let the siphon begin!!! after a few minutes you may want to shut the very bottom valve first, then the valve inside the pond. and then pull the plug at top of dam, to see if you need to add any more water. if all is good put plug back in. and open the valves and let it go. preferable a "round saucer snow sled" can be used under the "milk crates" with some wire between saucer sled and crates. to act like a sled to push everything out across the mud and into deeper water. if you have long enough string/rope. that may aid you better by pulling the end of pipe into deepest part of the lake. if your using sch40 or like pipe, then suggest you buy "fernco fittings" (name brand) it is the rubber fittings for pvc pipe. with pipe clamps. it costs a little more but lets you pull everything apart and add/subtract more pipe. if need be. and change things around if something happens mid way through changing the pond. if you are using hose un coil it, and straighten out as much as you can with a rock or board selectively placed, and let the sun warm it up for a few hours. it should help in trying to push it out into the pond and keeping the hose from trying to coil back up on you. ======= been there done that... not redoing the clay, but draining the lakes here, when the overflow pipes have clogged solid :/

I like your siphon idea! There isn't much water left now, so I think a buddy is going to bring home an electric pump from work if he can. I'll run it on my generator. If he can't get it, I may try the siphon setup. The reason I didn't get it all pumped out with the 3" pump was because the longest intake hose I could get was 20'. That just won't reach the bottom from solid ground. I had planned on using waders and getting down in the pond to bet the fish. Well one step told me that wasn't going to work. I like to never got out! New plan is to borrow a jon boat. I'll push it out across the muck and net the fish, hopefully this will work. I can also float the pump out into the water with the boat. Once all the water is out, I can pull the boat out with my Ranger or tractor. Problem is, they are calling for rain this weekend, so I'm not sure I'll be able to work o it. Here are pictures of pumping the water out. The water is much lower now, but I keep forgetting to take my phone down with me.

 

[TnWV]

Haven't made a lot of progress to date, but did rent a pump again this weekend and got all the water out that could be pumped. Once I gat down to the last little bit, the water became very thick and the pump just wouldn't pump any more. The pump they gave me this time was a brand new honda pump, never even started before. The last one was a whacker. The honda had nothing on the whacker. That whacker pushed the water out with much more force, and undoubtedly would have pumped the thick stuff out.

Good thing is, we managed to net out around 80 or so fish and successfully move them to a neighbors pond. Mostly bluegill but a few smaller bass as well. Not sure where the bigger bass we have been catching went, but suspect a turtle or crane must have pick them off as the water got low. Didn't find any turtles when getting the fish, but did see one a couple evenings ago feasting on a couple of fish that were missed. I'll carry a rifle with me from now in and take care of him if he shows his face again.

Of course, it has rained on and off all day yesterday and a chance of rain is now in the forecast everyday this week and weekend.

The contractor that I plan to use came out Saturday once the pond was empty, and looked it over. He said it was much deeper than he would have expected and is now worried that he will not be able to pull the muck out from the top with the excavator. Of course this is concerning because, having to move it twice will be very costly and completely blow my budget, and his original quote, for this project. If it can dry out enough, we can still complete within budget, since dry dirt us easier to move than mud.

Plan now is to wait out the rain and hope we get enough dry weather to get this done this year. If we get a clear forecast, I'm sure I'll be pumping a few feet of water out again.

Pictures of progress below. Of course I forgot to get a picture of it after finishing.

 

[Xfaxman]

:thumbsup: Please keep us updated.

 

[TnWV]

I just realized that I never updated this thread. Unfortunately, with all the rain we had last summer/fall, I was never able to keep the water out long enough for the bottom to dry up enough for the excavation guy to come in and make the repairs. I was able to get the water down to about 10-12 feet below the leak, but the excavation guy said it had to be completely dry. The bottom of the pond was holding fine and since it is so deep to begin with, I didn't feel the bottom really needed to be dredged out. I has hoped that with the water level so far below the level the pond was holding at, he would be able to scrap all vegetation off, push in a new layer of clay and pack it from the top down to seal the pond. He evidently didn't feel that this would work, so we had to put the project off until another time, assuming we can get it to dry up. I have decided that I will just purchase a 3" trash pump instead of renting one that way I can keep the water on my schedule rather than having to rent on every weekend.

The last time I rented the pump, I actually got all the water out and transferred about 80 or so fish from this pond to the neighbors pond. It was a heck of a process. We put a john boat in the pond and attaché a rope to my Ranger. I would net fish into 5 gallon buckets as the water went down, then pull the boat to shore and transfer the fish from the buckets into a 30 gallon barrel strapped into the back of the Ranger. We put water from the new pond and mixed with water from my pond after each transfer. We probably did 15-20 fish with each transfer. It worked well and all fish swam off just fine in the new pond, so I assume they all survived. We mostly had bluegill, but did catch about 15 or so small bass. We regularly caught some pretty large bass in the pond, so I have no idea where they went. Maybe they buried themselves in the mud as the water went down? All said and done, there were only a couple floaters later on once water start heading back into the pond. A fun ordeal, but it was a shame the rains kept coming and we could get it done.

Yesterday evening we went for a ride on the Ranger to see how much water was in the pond. After 2 12" plus snows in a two week period followed by a couple days of pouring rain, the pond is completely full again and water had actually been going through the overflow pipe at some point. I sure wish it would magically hold itself there because it looked so good being full. I haven't seen it like that in 3 years. I'm sure the level will be back down to where the leak is in a week or two though. I walked all over behind the dam, but could not see any sign of where the water is exiting.

Well that's where the project stands to date. Sure hope I can have better luck getting this done this year, but other projects may take priority over the pond. Time will tell.

 

[EddieWalker]

I bought a 3 inch trash pump from Northern Tool with a Honda motor that has worked great for me. My feeling is that the motor is what is most important in anything using a small engine. I've wasted too much money on other brands and will only buy Honda for now on. It's worth the extra up front cost.

Good luck with your leak. By any chance is there a spring that feeds into the pond? Sometimes a pond will leak into the side of the hill if there is rock, gravel or sand present. If you have a spring that lets water into the pond, it can just as easily pull water out as the water level drops inside the hill or ground water.

Probably the best thing to do will be just like you said, get it drained and dry enough to get a dozer in there and rework it. If the guy you hire knows his dirt and is experienced with ponds, he will be able to fix it or tell you what you need to make it water tight.

Eddie

 

[TnWV]

I bought a 3 inch trash pump from Northern Tool with a Honda motor that has worked great for me. My feeling is that the motor is what is most important in anything using a small engine. I've wasted too much money on other brands and will only buy Honda for now on. It's worth the extra up front cost.

Good luck with your leak. By any chance is there a spring that feeds into the pond? Sometimes a pond will leak into the side of the hill if there is rock, gravel or sand present. If you have a spring that lets water into the pond, it can just as easily pull water out as the water level drops inside the hill or ground water.

Probably the best thing to do will be just like you said, get it drained and dry enough to get a dozer in there and rework it. If the guy you hire knows his dirt and is experienced with ponds, he will be able to fix it or tell you what you need to make it water tight.

Eddie

Eddie,

A Honda pump from Northern Tool is exactly what I have been considering and will most likely purchase once I'm ready to go at it. My idea is to keep the pump in place and just keep getting the water out every time it starts filling up with the hope of it drying up enough to get a dozer in.

Yes, there is a spring that feeds it and that is what makes it hard to keep water out, other than rain of course. The spring doesn't flow as much as it used to in the summer but it is always wetter than the surrounding area. Could the spring be pulling water out? I don't have a clue. The spring is uphill from the pond, if that makes a difference. I know it was flowing good yesterday with all the rain we have had.

The guy that will do the work has been doing it his whole life, as did his father. He is the go to person for pond work, and other excavation for that matter, in my area. He only lives about 6-8 miles from me and has given me pretty fair rates. He scoped out the clay all around the pond and has already decided which area he liked best for sealing it up. He was ready to go, but we just couldn't get it dry enough. I trust his judgment, so I will just have to find a way to get the water out and dry it up if it is to be fixed.

It was so nice seeing it full of water yesterday, it has me hoping for the right weather to get it done. I love having a pond to fish in and watch the dogs swim, etc.