Haying On Shares...What's Customary

[freewookie]

Wow I'm doing 70/30. But it's all native grass and I haven't seeded or fertilized. I traded my share back to my hay guy for backhoe work. Roughly 40-50 cedars dug up and I didn't have to brush hog 12 acres. That works for me!

 

[RickB]

That would be a near "break even" situation for the land owner in my area. Fertilizer, seed, and lime cost could easily reach $100 per acre. Common yields for grass/legumes are 4 ton per acre anually. Grass/ legume will sell for $50-60 per ton here.

What's wrong with getting 1/2 of a well managed hay crop for $100 per year out of pocket while sitting on the porch watching somebody else buy, maintain & operate the equipment? Even a 2 cutting per year mixed grass stand would yield over 150 small squares per acre here. I'd take that for $100 and turn it into $425 with a pickup truck, two hour's time and 2 gallons of gas.

In case you haven't noticed, much of farming is a 'near "break even" situation' in many instances even when things go well.

50/50 is a well established baseline, as I said. If it doesn't fit your situation and you can get a better deal, fine.

 

[Soggy Bottom Outdoors]

Rick B, my point is why spend $100 bucks an acre on fertilizer, lime, and seed to end with $100 worth of hay. Just buy the hay. I'm using costs, yield averages, and market trends in my area. The OP is from Minn I think, his situation may be different. He mentioned alfalfa, if he meant alfalfa squares and he has a market for them it may be profitable. Otherwise he is likely trading dollars. I make several 100 acres of hay each year and buy several hundred bales also if the price is right. I realize some aspects of farming are break even some are not depending on year. This year grain margins will be very thin, last year and for the past 3 years there was good money in grain. This year and for the past 5 there has been very good money in cattle. I farm as a profession not as a hobby. Again KY is not Minn nor is it NY. The OP asked what was customary in my area and as I said a 50/50 share on grass/ legume with the landowner buying fert/lime/seed is a bad deal for the landowner.

 

[Bigfoot62]

I have a couple hundred acres which is a mixture of woods and pasture that I run beef cows on, and about 100 tillable acres that I rent out. I'm wondering what is a fair deal for share cropping hay ground. I vaguely remember a simple arrangement that sounded fair. I think the property owner paid for the seed, and the "other guy" did all the work, and the crop was split 50/50. It was something to that effect. What is customary in your area?

As the landowner, IF you can get someone to do it for 50/50, good for you.

Before I bought my own equipment, I was doing a 60/40 split with my cousin. (he got the 60) I supplied the grass, fertilize, lime, plus I did the cutting and raking with my tractor. (his mower and rake)

Now, I have well over $100K invested in tractors and equipment, and it's hard for me to turn a profit. I don't cut and bale for anyone else, nor would I even consider haying on shares.

 

[RickB]

Rick B, my point is why spend $100 bucks an acre on fertilizer, lime, and seed to end with $100 worth of hay. Just buy the hay. I'm using costs, yield averages, and market trends in my area. The OP is from Minn I think, his situation may be different. He mentioned alfalfa, if he meant alfalfa squares and he has a market for them it may be profitable. Otherwise he is likely trading dollars. I make several 100 acres of hay each year and buy several hundred bales also if the price is right. I realize some aspects of farming are break even some are not depending on year. This year grain margins will be very thin, last year and for the past 3 years there was good money in grain. This year and for the past 5 there has been very good money in cattle. I farm as a profession not as a hobby. Again KY is not Minn nor is it NY. The OP asked what was customary in my area and as I said a 50/50 share on grass/ legume with the landowner buying fert/lime/seed is a bad deal for the landowner.

Your numbers are off, or your yield is poor, something is wrong. Nobody is going to make anything grossing $200 per acre on hay (split 50/50, any other way, or not split at all) . Doesn't work at any level, in any state. The more fingers in the pot, the smaller handful you are going to come up with. If half a crop is only worth $100, the problem is with the management of the crop, not the division of it.

 

[Soggy Bottom Outdoors]

Common grass/legume hay yields in my area are 4 tons per acre annually or 8, 1000lb bales. 2.5 tons in the spring cutting, 1.5 tons in the fall. 5 bales per acre in the spring, 3 in the fall. Those 8 bales have a market value of $30 each or $240, divided 50/50 to each party is $120 worth of hay. Now we'll apply 300lbs per acre of fertilizer annually. Currently urea is $525 per ton, or $26.25 per 100lb, DAP is $590 per ton or $29.50 per 100lbs, muriate of potash is $470 per ton or $23.50 per 100lb. If we apply 100lb each of those ingredients we have a blend of 64-46-60 at 300lbs per acre and a cost of $79.25 per acre. Now add $20 per ton for lime/spreading. Now add red clover seed at 3-5lbs per acre at $3 a pound. All that crowds the $120 per acre awful hard. On the other end by the time I cut, tedder, rake, bale, count fuel, time, string or net wrap it will cost at least $15 a bale. $15 a bale, 8 bales per acre is .......$120 per acre.

 

[RickB]

Common grass/legume hay yields in my area are 4 tons per acre annually or 8, 1000lb bales. 2.5 tons in the spring cutting, 1.5 tons in the fall. 5 bales per acre in the spring, 3 in the fall. Those 8 bales have a market value of $30 each or $240, divided 50/50 to each party is $120 worth of hay. Now we'll apply 300lbs per acre of fertilizer annually. Currently urea is $525 per ton, or $26.25 per 100lb, DAP is $590 per ton or $29.50 per 100lbs, muriate of potash is $470 per ton or $23.50 per 100lb. If we apply 100lb each of those ingredients we have a blend of 64-46-60 at 300lbs per acre and a cost of $79.25 per acre. Now add $20 per ton for lime/spreading. Now add red clover seed at 3-5lbs per acre at $3 a pound. All that crowds the $120 per acre awful hard. On the other end by the time I cut, tedder, rake, bale, count fuel, time, string or net wrap it will cost at least $15 a bale. $15 a bale, 8 bales per acre is .......$120 per acre.

Hay crops must grow differently in KY. Up here seed is a one time cost on a perennial crop. 15lb/A at your $3 per lb on say a 5 year mixed stand. Even our most acid soils only require about 1-1/2 to 2 tons per acre every 5 or so years, usually a year ahead of hay crop establishment. I know good & darn well I never spent a dime on nitrogen for any legume crop (straight or mixed), they make their own. And if all you can muster up is $60 per ton for mixed legume/grass hay, I don't really have a response for that. I got $85 a ton for nice quality grass rounds the last year I farmed (1992). I don't have to tell you the same hay you bale would be worth easily twice as much or more in any other package. I used to sell 3 to 4 thousand tons of haylage each year on a protein/moisture formula that averaged $45-$53 per ton out of the silo and delivered 16 miles. But that's neither here nor there.

Bottom line, your numbers all add up to a breakeven proposition, which I don't really dispute. Doesn't matter if the cost and income are split or all go to one individual. And your numbers also prove a 50/50 split just about evenly divide the costs. You just have to figure out how to get more value out of the crop, and quit buying nitrogen to put on clover.

 

[arlen4720]

Hay crops must grow differently in KY. Up here seed is a one time cost on a perennial crop. 15lb/A at your $3 per lb on say a 5 year mixed stand. Even our most acid soils only require about 1-1/2 to 2 tons per acre every 5 or so years, usually a year ahead of hay crop establishment. I know good & darn well I never spent a dime on nitrogen for any legume crop (straight or mixed), they make their own. And if all you can muster up is $60 per ton for mixed legume/grass hay, I don't really have a response for that. I got $85 a ton for nice quality grass rounds the last year I farmed (1992). I don't have to tell you the same hay you bale would be worth easily twice as much or more in any other package. I used to sell 3 to 4 thousand tons of haylage each year on a protein/moisture formula that averaged $45-$53 per ton out of the silo and delivered 16 miles. But that's neither here nor there.

Bottom line, your numbers all add up to a breakeven proposition, which I don't really dispute. Doesn't matter if the cost and income are split or all go to one individual. And your numbers also prove a 50/50 split just about evenly divide the costs. You just have to figure out how to get more value out of the crop, and quit buying nitrogen to put on clover.

Your yields, costs and types of legumes and grasses in NY are allot closer to what I experience in MN.
A good alfalfa/brome/timothy mix would go for 120-180 dollars per ton. 4 tons per acre would be common, but of course varies widely with the weather.

 

[Gary Fowler]

A local guy bales some hay for my brother in law for $20 per round bale. That is about what he could buy it for but would have to haul it from a field some miles from him. It is much easier to just move it from his pasture to a storage area with his tractor and not have to mess with making several loads by Truck/ trailer. It is about a break even cost for him after having to replace the removed grass nutrients with fertilizer on his hay field vs paying for hauling from some one else's field so the convenience factor weighs out.

 

[bigbull338]

we wont do 50/50 splitt around here at all.now days its 70/30 splitt if you can find a baler to take that deal.you would be better off to hire a custom baler and keep all the hay.