synthetic oil in NH compact tractot

[Copperhead]

Ralph, one could use the Final Charge Extended life coolant.... the red stuff. I use it in my semi trucks, tractor, and pickup. It has a 500,000 mile 5 year life. Just add a small amount of extender at 300,000 miles or 3 years. It is a killer product that controls liner cavitation far better that the old stuff for wet sleeved engines. Is nitrite free and works with all metals. Low abrasion to make water pumps and seals last longer. Delo and Shell Rotella make their own versions also. Not very expensive over any other product, in fact given the life cycle, actually cheaper. Does not need to be tested except for annual freeze point confirmation. I used this in my Jeep Liberty diesel also which had a wet sleeved motor. The Final Charge is a mixed fleet type of coolant that can be used in Diesel, gasoline, and NG engine ( I assume propane engines as well if it is good for NG). The old days of nitrite based SCA supplements are over with this stuff. Only thing is to use deionized water with the product. I just avoid that an buy the 50/50 premix gallons. Available the cheapest at various truckstop chains. I price a gallon yesterday at $12.83 at a Love's Truck stop. Just got on their website and they say..... Any engine. Any country. Anywhere in the world. One world. One coolant.

PEAK COMMERCIAL & INDUSTRIAL | FINAL CHARGE | EXTENDED LIFE COOLANT/ANTIFREEZE | PRODUCT DETAILS

I misspoke. The length of time for the coolant is... 8 years or 20,000 hrs or 1 million miles. Guess the formulation got better from when I last read specs. As per...

http://images.peakauto.com/PEAK_Global Extended Life Concentrate Red_Spec Sheet_LORES.pdf

Their FAQ page....

PEAK COMMERCIAL & INDUSTRIAL | FINAL CHARGE | EXTENDED LIFE COOLANT/ANTIFREEZE | FAQS

Cliff

 

[Copperhead]

If it meets the manufacturer's spec, then your golden. I leave oil in for years since I don't put many hours on some equipment and have never had a problem. Gas or diesel. I don't believe in changing oil just because it's been in the engine for a certain period of time. I do check for condensation under the oil filler cap and I also don't run the engines for very short periods of time. When they are used they always get run long enough to get good and hot and burn off any condensation.

DEWFPO

Me personally, I wouldn't trust doing that without oil sample analysis. Condensation is but one of many issues. Acid build up in the oil is another one. And if the additive package, which controls acids, has been depleted, how would you know? It is common knowledge that as oil is used, total acid number (TAN) rises while the additive package (TBN) goes down. When they meet, oil is at max effective life in the component. Now, that being said, since my NH only holds a gallon of oil, I am not going to spend $30 for an oil sample when I can just change the oil. So to that end, I change annually.

Now to be fair, ULSD has helped in keeping acid formation lower. But it still happens. And unless one tests the oil, there is no way to know. Under the cap look sees, sniff tests, and other methods are not going to tell the story. At least not within my comfort level.

 

[MikePA]

Ralph, one could use the Final Charge Extended life coolant.... the red stuff. I just avoid that an buy the 50/50 premix gallons. Available the cheapest at various truckstop chains. I price a gallon yesterday at $12.83 at a Love's Truck stop. Just got on their website and they say..... Any engine. Any country. Anywhere in the world. One world. One coolant.

PEAK COMMERCIAL & INDUSTRIAL | FINAL CHARGE | EXTENDED LIFE COOLANT/ANTIFREEZE | PRODUCT DETAILS

I misspoke. The length of time for the coolant is... 8 years or 20,000 hrs or 1 million miles. Guess the formulation got better from when I last read specs. As per...

http://images.peakauto.com/PEAK_Global Extended Life Concentrate Red_Spec Sheet_LORES.pdf

Their FAQ page....

PEAK COMMERCIAL & INDUSTRIAL | FINAL CHARGE | EXTENDED LIFE COOLANT/ANTIFREEZE | FAQS

Cliff

Cliff,

Thanks for posting this information.

On Thursday, I picked up 2 gallons of the pre-mix at my local Pep Boys ($14.83/gal inc tax) and just finished replacing the antifreeze in my NH TC25D. I won't be doing this again for a while. :laughing:

 

[Ram4x4]

Pardon my ignorance, I've only recently been learning more about oil than I ever thought I'd want to know....

I've always used Rotella in my Dodge Ram with no issues...and the Cummins diesel being parent bored never had to worry about sleeve cavitation, but...now that I have my Mahindra 5035, and it due for its 50 hour service, I started reading about oils.

I've been leaning toward synthetics (both engine and hydraulic) specifically because the tractor doesn't see near daily use like my truck does. I'm under the impression that synthetics provide extended change intervals among other supposed advantages over dino oil (which is a misnomer as synthetics are dino oils too, just that the base stocks are refined to a higher degree).

Correct me if my understanding is incorrect, but I thought synthetics stayed more stable over longer periods of sitting?
Wouldn't TAN build up only occur when the engine is running?
Are the additive packages different in synthetics than dino oils? (I know each brand's additives are different within the same class of oil, but is there something different about synthetic additives?)

I read an article (dang, I gotta find the site again) where a fellow does oil testing specifically for wear resistance and he states that oil film strength is THE measure for that. Interestingly, diesel oils had significantly lower film strength than oils made for gas engines. The best rated diesel oils had somewhere around 75,000 PSI film strength whereas gas engine oils were well over 100,000 PSI.

I don't mind spending the extra for synthetics for my tractor provided doing so is giving me real world benefits. From what I've read, any good oil will provide plenty of lubrication and protection while running, but since the tractor sits a lot, it seems like synthetics have an advantage there?

Sorry if this has all been hashed out before.

 

[Copperhead]

Really, regardless of the base oil... synthetic or mineral... the additive package of the oil can make or break how an oil really does it's job. The add pack makes up to 25% of a gallon of oil. You can have a top line PAO synthetic base oil, but if it is tied to a lousy add pack, it really is of no real benefit. But that doesn't mean a mediocre base oil tied to a great add pack is good either. A well balanced product is the cat's meow. And there are 3 classifications of synthetics... Group III (highly refined dino as mentioned), Group IV PAO (made from ethylene gas extracted primarily from NG), Group V which is anything that doesn't fit into the other categories. Most on the shelf are Group III. The higher end and boutique oils are usually Group IV, and some oils are a blend of the two. I primarily use Schaeffer, and that is a 25% Group IV with 75% Group III with a very stout add pack.

That film strength test thing, I read it also. It was done on gas engine oils, but it does have merit across the board. Film strength is indeed an important consideration, but just one of many. Wish he would have extended the test to diesel rated oils.

Motor Oil Wear Test Results

 

[two4spooky]

I like your choice of coolant. :thumbsup: But to be honest my reason for choosing Final Charge was simpler. It is the only HD coolant my Walmart stocks. I have no plans to leave it in for the maximum PEAK recommended interval though.

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Ralph, one could use the Final Charge Extended life coolant.... the red stuff. I use it in my semi trucks, tractor, and pickup. It has a 500,000 mile 5 year life. Just add a small amount of extender at 300,000 miles or 3 years. It is a killer product that controls liner cavitation far better that the old stuff for wet sleeved engines. Is nitrite free and works with all metals. Low abrasion to make water pumps and seals last longer. Delo and Shell Rotella make their own versions also. Not very expensive over any other product, in fact given the life cycle, actually cheaper. Does not need to be tested except for annual freeze point confirmation. I used this in my Jeep Liberty diesel also which had a wet sleeved motor. The Final Charge is a mixed fleet type of coolant that can be used in Diesel, gasoline, and NG engine ( I assume propane engines as well if it is good for NG). The old days of nitrite based SCA supplements are over with this stuff. Only thing is to use deionized water with the product. I just avoid that an buy the 50/50 premix gallons. Available the cheapest at various truckstop chains. I price a gallon yesterday at $12.83 at a Love's Truck stop. Just got on their website and they say..... Any engine. Any country. Anywhere in the world. One world. One coolant.

PEAK COMMERCIAL & INDUSTRIAL | FINAL CHARGE | EXTENDED LIFE COOLANT/ANTIFREEZE | PRODUCT DETAILS

I misspoke. The length of time for the coolant is... 8 years or 20,000 hrs or 1 million miles. Guess the formulation got better from when I last read specs. As per...

http://images.peakauto.com/PEAK_Global Extended Life Concentrate Red_Spec Sheet_LORES.pdf

Their FAQ page....

PEAK COMMERCIAL & INDUSTRIAL | FINAL CHARGE | EXTENDED LIFE COOLANT/ANTIFREEZE | FAQS

Cliff

 

[two4spooky]

I have about decided to do similarly with a limit of 18 to 24 months, depending on hours of use. On anther forum, BobIsTheOilGuy.com, some are stretching their OCI out to two and three years on tractors with dino oils doing used oil analysis. If your machine is in good mechanical condition, you get to operating temperature and keeping it there for a while, I think it is fine within reasonable limits. Like COPPERHEAD mentioned, used oil analysis(UOA) would not make financial sense for my machine size. I know my equipment's condition and can for the most part control it's use. My maximum OCI will likely be set at 24 months and/or 50% of manufactures recommended hours of use.

If it meets the manufacturer's spec, then your golden. I leave oil in for years since I don't put many hours on some equipment and have never had a problem. Gas or diesel. I don't believe in changing oil just because it's been in the engine for a certain period of time. I do check for condensation under the oil filler cap and I also don't run the engines for very short periods of time. When they are used they always get run long enough to get good and hot and burn off any condensation.

DEWFPO

 

[Ram4x4]

Really, regardless of the base oil... synthetic or mineral... the additive package of the oil can make or break how an oil really does it's job. The add pack makes up to 25% of a gallon of oil. You can have a top line PAO synthetic base oil, but if it is tied to a lousy add pack, it really is of no real benefit. But that doesn't mean a mediocre base oil tied to a great add pack is good either. A well balanced product is the cat's meow. And there are 3 classifications of synthetics... Group III (highly refined dino as mentioned), Group IV PAO (made from ethylene gas extracted primarily from NG), Group V which is anything that doesn't fit into the other categories. Most on the shelf are Group III. The higher end and boutique oils are usually Group IV, and some oils are a blend of the two. I primarily use Schaeffer, and that is a 25% Group IV with 75% Group III with a very stout add pack.

That film strength test thing, I read it also. It was done on gas engine oils, but it does have merit across the board. Film strength is indeed an important consideration, but just one of many. Wish he would have extended the test to diesel rated oils.

Motor Oil Wear Test Results

I'm not sure that's the same report I read. The one I read specifically did test diesel oils (that's where I was getting the film strength numbers on it). One of the oils tested was the "old" Rotella, which apparently has some legendary claims about how good it was and that the new stuff wasn't nearly as good. The tests showed this to not be true, of course.

Either way, I'm still not sure which oil I want to go with (need to decide now, I need to get the fluids changed as I need the tractor). I think after further reading I am going with Shell Spirax S4 for hydraulics/HST, but not sure for engine oil yet.