DejaVu feeling with this work 'tier'

[Rocky Hoffler]

I will say this along with my original post people tend to keep tractors a lot longer than cars or trucks and I will be the first to tell you that when everything is working right there's not a problem. It comes when your unit is out of warranty and when a problem arises it can't be diagnosed like old style mechanical engines you have to have special equipment to even communicate with it price some of this. The guys selling this stuff will tell you it's not going to be a problem ask them for a 20 year emission warranty and see what they say.
A lot of people only put 40 to 60 hours a year on their machines not a daily driver check and see what kind of shelf live DEF has. Just food for thought

 

[Wayne64SS]

DEF and DPF are 2 hair-brain ideas that won't be around long. What kills me is people don't HAVE to buy this garbage. No one's forcing anyone to buy anything, if the public simply stood up and said we don't want this crap and we're not buying it things would change in a hurry.

 

[Verticaltrx]

I've tried to like the newer stuff and just haven't come around to it yet. The electronic stuff doesn't bother me as much as the poorer quality of the new products. Autos and equipment alike are being built cheaper and cheaper while the prices continue to soar.

I've recently done some mechanic work on new autos and light trucks and was amazed at how they have cheapened things up in just the last few years. Sheet metal is very thin, lots of plastic where it shouldn't be, nothing is greaseable or rebuildable anymore, no thought put into ease of service, and the list goes on and on. It has made me very grateful for my older but serviceable trucks ('69 F-350, '72 GMC C5500, '75 C60, '88 F-250) and I'll be taking them through the shop for a full-nut-and-bolt restoration as I get the time.

As for the tractors, there is even less motivation for me to upgrade than with autos. My IH 454 diesel is over 40yrs old but has more 'modern' features than it's current counterparts. I looked at the current Kubota, Deere and CIH offerings in that size (40hp 2wd) and they are really stripped down nowadays. My 454 has power steering, hydraulic brakes, hyd. actuated independent PTO, 8/4 synchronized transmission, excellent draft and 3pt controls, good hydraulic flow, etc. I guess you have to go up to the premium series tractors for those things now.

 

[arrow]

I've tried to like the newer stuff and just haven't come around to it yet. The electronic stuff doesn't bother me as much as the poorer quality of the new products. Autos and equipment alike are being built cheaper and cheaper while the prices continue to soar.

I've recently done some mechanic work on new autos and light trucks and was amazed at how they have cheapened things up in just the last few years. Sheet metal is very thin, lots of plastic where it shouldn't be, nothing is greaseable or rebuildable anymore, no thought put into ease of service, and the list goes on and on. It has made me very grateful for my older but serviceable trucks ('69 F-350, '72 GMC C5500, '75 C60, '88 F-250) and I'll be taking them through the shop for a full-nut-and-bolt restoration as I get the time.

As for the tractors, there is even less motivation for me to upgrade than with autos. My IH 454 diesel is over 40yrs old but has more 'modern' features than it's current counterparts. I looked at the current Kubota, Deere and CIH offerings in that size (40hp 2wd) and they are really stripped down nowadays. My 454 has power steering, hydraulic brakes, hyd. actuated independent PTO, 8/4 synchronized transmission, excellent draft and 3pt controls, good hydraulic flow, etc. I guess you have to go up to the premium series tractors for those things now.

Vert, last year I saw a 454 that was all reconditioned and for sale for $7000. It was beautiful. At the time, I was looking to buy a new tractor and when i saw this IH, it was love at first sight. The only thing that stopped me was that it was 2wd of course and I questioned the efficacy of how good this thing would be in the dense woods I have to skid stems out. While I was pondering this over night, I went back the next day to get another look and to make a decision and it had a "sold" sign on it and that ended that. Just wondered if you used yours to skid wood with and if you do, how good is it? Just wanting to know so I can kick myself a little harder.

 

[buck boost]

Wait till you get a repair bill for the DPF on that pile. Or are you the typical own till warranty expires VW guy?

I have a track record of keeping my vehicles long after the warranty period has ended. Federal law on emission system warranty on cars and trucks is 80K miles or 8 years, whichever occurs first. This is my first VW though so we will see. There is absolutely no reason to believe it will or should fail prematurely. There is a great deal of information on this. Ash loading in the DPF is to be checked at 120K miles, and every 20K after. Many reports indicate 120K miles with driving habits/environments similar to me, and have, many, many, many thousands to go before ash loading becomes a problem.

With my perception of your logic, is the same as saying, "wait till your engine crank case oil pump stops working, that will be a gigantic bill" or don't drive your pick-up with a load firewood in the back because when you blow a front tire, you might die.

:duh:

I will say this along with my original post people tend to keep tractors a lot longer than cars or trucks and I will be the first to tell you that when everything is working right there's not a problem. It comes when your unit is out of warranty and when a problem arises it can't be diagnosed like old style mechanical engines you have to have special equipment to even communicate with it price some of this. The guys selling this stuff will tell you it's not going to be a problem ask them for a 20 year emission warranty and see what they say.
A lot of people only put 40 to 60 hours a year on their machines not a daily driver check and see what kind of shelf live DEF has. Just food for thought

I agree, in my experiences that tractors hang around quite a bit longer than vehicles. Diagnosing though, seems to be a moot point. I have a decent shop full of tools, and reasonable mechanical ability/theory. You are absolutely right as far as diagnosing though, the newer systems aren't the same is the older systems. What I don't get (I'm assuming here) that most tractor owners don't have the right equipment to properly diagnose the older style stuff either. I don't have a way to check injector pump pressure, pump timing, injectors flow, ect ect. If the owner does, I can see a gripe. If not, what difference does it make?

One nice thing about technology, as it becomes more wide spread, the cost goes WAY down, and continues to get better, electronics anyhow.

The only reason my manufacturers put warranties on anything, is to help sell their product. I can warranty a piece of junk for 1000 years and it will still be a piece of junk, indefenitly. Just because a item has a lifetime warranty, does that make it a better product?

DEF and DPF are 2 hair-brain ideas that won't be around long. What kills me is people don't HAVE to buy this garbage. No one's forcing anyone to buy anything, if the public simply stood up and said we don't want this crap and we're not buying it things would change in a hurry.

Not sure why you call it crap/garbage? Is this what the public said about Tetraethyllead?

Oh wait, this is better for everyone, and the future of world (just kidding):

<snip>

I've recently done some mechanic work on new autos and light trucks and was amazed at how they have cheapened things up in just the last few years. Sheet metal is very thin, lots of plastic where it shouldn't be, nothing is greaseable or rebuildable anymore, no thought put into ease of service, and the list goes on and on. It has made me very grateful for my older but serviceable trucks ('69 F-350, '72 GMC C5500, '75 C60, '88 F-250) and I'll be taking them through the shop for a full-nut-and-bolt restoration as I get the time.

<snip>

My experience between a '84 ford f250 351 holley 4bbl 4x2 in the mid 90's, comparing to the 2006 2500HD GMC w6.0L 4x4 W/T gasser, today is vastly different than yours. In my honest opinion, there is nothing, not one thing is or was where the ford was superior in anyway than the HD. Heck, the HD went 100K miles before its first brake job. It still doesn't even leak on drop of oil, anywhere after 135K miles. Minimal repair for the work it has done. It does work, it pulls a 24' goose.

 

[Blade Breaker]

I also was scared of the DPF filter when I was shopping for tractors. I could not find one post on problems with the JD DPF. I am not saying that they are perfect I am just saying this issues must not be common. I have just turned 100 hours on my machine. I have left it on AUTO and it has cleaned the filter twice is all that I have noticed. No stopping no hassle no issues.
I was messing around in one of my smaller sheds trying to hook up to a side mower that fell off its stand. I was in the building with the tractor running for 30-40 minutes messing around and I could not smell exhaust at all. If that would have been one of our older machines the building would have been completely filled with smoke. I thought that was dang good!!

It is easy to say that the older stuff is better, and sometimes that is true but mostly its not.

Best wishes

 

[Rocky Hoffler]

I did some checking Kubota emission warranty for 50 h.p. and below is 1500 hours or 2 years which ever is less not many people will put those hours on in 2 years. What I said about being able to work on it comes from 40 years of doing just that. prior models without electronic controls there was a lot of things you could check with out having to buy software program, cables and hardware. where I work approximately estimate of 15 thousand a year is spent on software and updates for different brands.
As I have said when everything is working it's great. the problem comes when the dreaded light comes on unless you have the ability to communicate you are shooting in the dark. I hope your VW runs trouble free forever. Just for conversation sake we had a 6.4 litre in a F-550 lose an egr cooler out of warranty 12500 dollars to repair as it dumped coolant in oil and lost engine. the debate goes on but there is a saying TWT time will tell. have a blessed day.

 

[Wayne64SS]

I have a track record of keeping my vehicles long after the warranty period has ended. Federal law on emission system warranty on cars and trucks is 80K miles or 8 years, whichever occurs first. This is my first VW though so we will see. There is absolutely no reason to believe it will or should fail prematurely. There is a great deal of information on this. Ash loading in the DPF is to be checked at 120K miles, and every 20K after. Many reports indicate 120K miles with driving habits/environments similar to me, and have, many, many, many thousands to go before ash loading becomes a problem.

OK. Good luck with that.

Not sure why you call it crap/garbage? Is this what the public said about Tetraethyllead?

Maybe I've worked on one or two..... ?

Oh wait, this is better for everyone, and the future of world (just kidding):

I agree the world was a MUCH better place back in the days of the 1693, v12 Detroit 3408s etc.

My experience between a '84 ford f250 351 holley 4bbl 4x2 in the mid 90's, comparing to the 2006 2500HD GMC w6.0L 4x4 W/T gasser, today is vastly different than yours. In my honest opinion, there is nothing, not one thing is or was where the ford was superior in anyway than the HD. Heck, the HD went 100K miles before its first brake job. It still doesn't even leak on drop of oil, anywhere after 135K miles. Minimal repair for the work it has done. It does work, it pulls a 24' goose.

I agree 100%, LS platforms engines are probably hands down the BEST gas engines you can buy today. Just don't get one with cylinder deactivation. You're old Ford had a silly front end setup, as does the 2500HD with it's glorified cavalier front end. So they're about tied in that respect. I like just about everything else about them TBH.

 

[Rocky Hoffler]

As modern vehicles become increasingly complex to repair, it is now virtually impossible to diagnose and fix faults without using sophisticated diagnostic equipment. As well as using Volvo’s VIDA diagnostic system, we also have access to technical support and information from Volvo to assist us in repairing your vehicle.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Vert, last year I saw a 454 that was all reconditioned and for sale for $7000. It was beautiful. At the time, I was looking to buy a new tractor and when i saw this IH, it was love at first sight. The only thing that stopped me was that it was 2wd of course and I questioned the efficacy of how good this thing would be in the dense woods I have to skid stems out. While I was pondering this over night, I went back the next day to get another look and to make a decision and it had a "sold" sign on it and that ended that. Just wondered if you used yours to skid wood with and if you do, how good is it? Just wanting to know so I can kick myself a little harder.

We've used this tractor in the woods a lot over the past 30yrs, it's as good as any other 2wd tractor of that size. It might be a little better than some as it is pretty heavy, I think it is heavier than the 5203 Deere we have. That said, it doesn't have as much ground clearance as the Deere, which can be a draw back.

My experience between a '84 ford f250 351 holley 4bbl 4x2 in the mid 90's, comparing to the 2006 2500HD GMC w6.0L 4x4 W/T gasser, today is vastly different than yours. In my honest opinion, there is nothing, not one thing is or was where the ford was superior in anyway than the HD. Heck, the HD went 100K miles before its first brake job. It still doesn't even leak on drop of oil, anywhere after 135K miles. Minimal repair for the work it has done. It does work, it pulls a 24' goose.

One of the vehicles I was referring to was my fathers 2010 Dodge 3500 cab/chassis with the 6.7 Cummins and 6spd. It is supposed to tow 18,000lbs, which we often do, and the truck is just falling apart. At just 30,000mi its had a new clutch, new front brakes, new tie rod, and new u-joints in both the rear driveshaft and front axle. In comparison, we have a '75 Chevy C-60 that has been in constant service for almost 40yrs and has needed nothing more than regular service (it's rated to tow about the same amount.) Yes, I know that isn't a fair comparison of a light duty vs a medium duty, but the mfgs are touting these new light duty trucks to do the same work as the mediums, yet they completely fall apart when you really use them.

I also have a '69 F-350 cab/chassis, it rides a lot better than the aforementioned Dodge, has a greater payload capacity, is geared lower (clutches last much longer) and honestly gets about the same mpg. I don't know what it is rated to tow, but I don't use it for that anyways. Sure it doesn't have AC, power steering or even a radio, but it's also a $350 truck vs a $35000 truck. Hauls hay, firewood, lumber and anything else just the same as far as I can tell.

As for autos, my wife has a '91 Honda accord, it has 320K on it with nothing more than routine maintenance, still on the original clutch. It also gets 30-35mpg, which is better than a lot of similar cars today.

I guess I can just think of a lot of better things to spend my money on than new vehicles when older ones will do the same job for pennies on the dollar.