Diesels only in EXPENSIVE Foreign cars and EXPENSIVE US TRUCKS....here's WHY

[jaotguy]

diesels have torque from low speeds right up to red line ..... with or without a turbo....

diesel can burn as clean as a gasser ( sometimes even cleaner )

diesels with turbos can be quicker than the gasser version .

diesels are now quieter than most gassers (cabin noise )
DI has almost eliminated the clack ...

most diesels start well at low temps ...

I've had both versions of the same car (gas and diesel) go over 650,000 Km without major engine problems, so we can skip that argument ...

outside of the smell when filling up, you can't tell'em apart.


BUT, diesels put out more useful power for less fuel.. and some can still run on $%^&* fuel , even vegetable oil off the shelf in a pinch ...... and a lot of 3rd world countries use waste cooking oil, palm oil, coconut oil ... scooters, outboard engines , etc .... no oil refineries needed ....



CARB regulated the particulates ( and in smog filled cities , something had to be done ) .... and rather than make 2 models , the car makers just follow the more stringent CA version .... but as you've seen almost every state has dropped the "E-test" ....

big oil , car makers, and some fanatical environmentalists push for no diesels ...

big oil ... so they can control the market
car makers ... so they don't have to offer more engines and models to compete with the Euro car makers.
environmentalists ... go electric ... no pollution ... ( except most states burn coal to produce the electricity ... cleaner?)

 

[DarkBlack]

At the mercy of another cliff fall debate, I can concede: In general use, diesels can put out more 'useful' power ( that being torque at low commonly used rpms).
You just can't proclaim that they make more power, size for size, or pound for pound.

 

[varmint]

Don't think anyone has mentioned here something sort of related... Audi has cleaned up at the 24 hours of LeMans many years running, using their Tdi turbo diesel cars.

 

[Hiltz]

Where is Jesse Ventura?Maybe he can investigate this?

Ha, good one

 

[SPYDERLK]

Enzo Ferrari was once quoted as saying "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races".

Too simplistic; therefore wrong. The two are not separable. -- Horsepower and tractability wins races. ie greatest area under the hp curve.
larry

 

[jaotguy]

I can concede: In general use, diesels can put out more 'useful' power ( that being torque at low commonly used rpms).
You just can't proclaim that they make more power, size for size, or pound for pound.

the statement was "more useful power on less fuel"

never stated "they make more power, size for size, or pound for pound" .... they are physically bigger and heavier due to construction , only the "displacement" is smaller :thumbsup:


HP wise they are "down on power" ... torque wise they are higher ( allows wider ranges for round town and highway cruise gearing )... easier pull away from stop signs without bogging /stalling .... smooth brisk acceleration ( not snap your neck when you hit the power band )....

and the displacement is always 1 or 2 CC less than the number specified 1598 for 1600 ... 1898 for 1900 ... just to make sure the engines are under the next higher bracket for being punished for having fun ...

but we must admit , both engines are a vast improvement over the engines of decades ago ... both are extremely durable, low maintenance beasts ....

my only beef is the title (expensive cars and trucks) golfs / jettas are not that much more expensive than a NA car

and Ram diesel trucks are right up there with the Cummings engine ..... ... great motors ...

 

[MHarryE]

Don't think anyone has mentioned here something sort of related... Audi has cleaned up at the 24 hours of LeMans many years running, using their Tdi turbo diesel cars.

Audi/Volkswagen make some fine diesels. Several years ago I happened to get an Audi A6 All Road. All Road means multi position suspension (actually 7 heights). One Sunday morning in light traffic on an almost deserted Autobahn I had the opportunity to cruise at the speed limiter speed - 255 km/hr or 158 mph. It was the most stable car I have ever driven - 3.0 after cooled turbo diesel. That day I did not get my normal diesel mileage but still was in the range of 7 liters/100 km. I am hard pressed to think of an European diesel that is not turbocharged. The general rule when I lived in Europe was Diesel engine car life expectancy 2.5 times that of a gasoline engine car.

 

[Capricious]

Question: Will you be willing to pay a premium for an ordinary sedan with a diesel, rather than a gasoline engine, when diesel fuel costs twice as much per gallon as gasoline?

 

[JimRB]

I guess the retort question is where in the US today is diesel twice the price of gasoline and when is it predicted to be twice the price?

Where I buy diesel it is priced between mid-grade and premium gasoline. It used to be the least expensive fuel 10 years ago.

I also read that a fair amount of US made diesel is shipped overseas.

I thought I read diesel fuel has a higher tax per gallon than gasoline.

 

[Capricious]

I remember when diesel was half the price of gasoline, all single-axle dumps & most tandem-axle dumps were gasoline, and the only pick up trucks with diesels were swaps. Diesels in cars? Maybe the odd Mercedes and that was about it.

Now diesel engies are available in pretty much every type of vehicle, and the market for refined petro. shows it. The demand for diesel has been growing much faster than the demand for gasoline. Refineries produce so many gals of diesel and so many gals. of gasoline from a barrel of crude, and cannot vary that production by much. Cat. cracking has helped but there simply isn't that much residual left from crude any more.

Bottom line: the price of diesel will continue to rise in relation to the price of gasoline. The time will come when #2 @ the pump is twice the price of gasoline. When? I'm not saying. But considering the (sometimes unsubstantiated) claims of the longevity of diesels posted here by some, it is a matter not to be taken lightly.

Like I said before, If I had heavy loads to haul all the time, I would get a diesel. If I occasionally had to haul a heavy load, gasoline. And in any car, gasoline. I keep my vehicles a long time. I expect to see very high diesel prices during the lifetime of the next vehicle I buy.

I also would not buy a hybrid- too complicated for the little benefit.