what makes a good "arc?"

[mrmikey]

As far as DC, until a person uses a pure DC generator like an SA-200 or similar, I don't think the difference is as clear.

For sure, they are the best stick machine IMHO, mind you saying that, arc blow with them is a b&&ch, that and burning the switches out of grinders....Mike

 

[rmully]

Shield Arc, used to say that the Everlast PA200 had as smooth of an arc when running 7018 as any of his many engine drives. I don't have a clue.

I find this machine to run 7018 smooth.

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

I would have to wonder if the newer inverter welders would replicate this smooth arc?

I can say my lincoln invertec v250-s has a very good arc - noticeably better than something cheap.

 

[dragoneggs]

Where in "heck" is Shield Arc when you need him.

hear! hear!

 

[mikehaugen]

Where in "heck" is Shield Arc when you need him.

Over on welding web... he is still active there and I do quite a bit of lurking there (still haven't signed up).

Can't remember his screen name but I recognize his avatar everytime

 

[ThomasH]

Interesting. I didn't realize there was a fundamental difference between Red and Blue. Learn something every day.

Lots of good info in this thread already.

It's not that simple, both red and blue use various size capacitors to re-shape the DC waveform and make it more steady. There are subtle differences, but not stark differences in the ones I have seen on a scope.

 

[ThomasH]

Duplicate post...

 

[robstaples]

Maybe I can add to this complexity. First, red and blue both make good machines as do others. It's a design issue. For example, There are large capacitors that can dump high current at startup so a rod doesn't stick when first struck. And Inductors maintain the current flow when the arc length increases instead of arc blowing out. Each of these can then be controlled to various degrees to a desired result. Also, motor/ generators tend to have more inductance than AC powered resulting generally in smoother arc. But money can equalize inherent differences. So more expensive machines have more control over the arc / current / voltage characteristics. Most designs are different therefore the results will be different. I built my first DC stick machine and learned some of the relationships. It was crude by today's standards but effective at the time.
. Now I use a red and a blue mig.
Thomas h beat me to it and is more distinct. Good job T

 

[ThomasH]

Maybe I can add to this complexity. First, red and blue both make good machines as do others. It's a design issue. For example, There are large capacitors that can dump high current at startup so a rod doesn't stick when first struck. And Inductors maintain the current flow when the arc length increases instead of arc blowing out. Each of these can then be controlled to various degrees to a desired result. Also, motor/ generators tend to have more inductance than AC powered resulting generally in smoother arc. But money can equalize inherent differences. So more expensive machines have more control over the arc / current / voltage characteristics. Most designs are different therefore the results will be different. I built my first DC stick machine and learned some of the relationships. It was crude by today's standards but effective at the time. My Elec Eng background helped. Now I use a red and a blue mig.

Well put, and let me add that when striking the arc, the more sophisticated machines will attempt to provide a lot of power to keep the rod from sticking (for about 1/4 of a second); which gets you started. And they can control the inductance, which tends to either concentrate the arc or spread it out.

Some of the less expensive welders have some of these features, and typically the latest inverter machines have more of them than the similarly priced transformer machines.

 

[Blade Breaker]

Burn some rod with different machines and you can tell. I have used engine drives, inverters, and transformers. All can be good but there are some that shine above the rest. There are a few transformer machines that have a very smooth arc and are able to run a very tight arc. The ability to run a short arc length when running 7018 is important. The ability to keep the arc length short decreases the chance for arc blow and allows you to run higher current. When is was competing I used to train on as many machines as possible. The worst stick machines were the first generation inverters. I remember going into my welding booth at VICA nationals and seeing the red inverter and knowing it would be a challenge. For most general welding a name brand newer machines will run well. How you route your ground cable and stinger cable when welding can also help with this. For most general repair or hobby welding this should not be much of a concern. And it is not as much of a problem with rods like 6010 or 6011.