Wiring subpanel

[DarkBlack]

I thought the NEC said grounded and grounding. I have the 1996 book back when I built my house. Grounded was listed as N in the book towards the front and grounding had a symbol that I believe to be that 10 foot rod driven into the dirt. Or maybe those two rods in the dirt. Or three, or maybe even the metal in the concrete. I think of grounded and neutral as synonyms. Grounded is white, grounding is green or bare copper heading to the earth.

By the way the industrial electrician/contractor had to read and reread the code when he helped me rough service the barn. Unbonded in the panel with a grounding rod is what we did. 2 hot legs, grounded/neutral and grounding/green wire back to the house.

Yes, neutral is the 'grounded' conductor-white.
Bare, or green is the 'grounding' conductor.

 

[Mace Canute]

Some of the confusion comes from some power companies not running a neutral line with the power lines. Those companies depend on the earth for the neutral

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???? don't think so. could you elaborate more on this.

The term is "T LINE". In rural areas, you may notice a single pole with a single line, hot only. Typically 4kv, run a bug on the farm yard. The return path, neutral, is through the earth. Its works fine but it's usually a practice found in older areas.

Here in Saskatchewan because of good soil conductivity earth return is used throughout the vast majority of the province on both existing and new construction. Our Distribution three phase system is a WYE system with 25,000 V phase-to-phase and 14,400 V to earth.

 

[Mac25]

Ok, now I am really confused. Here are my questions....I initially bought 2-2-4 wire....will this suffice as the two hots and a neutral? If not, can I just go buy a single run of wire and use it as the ground if I have to run 4 wire? My main service panel at the house has 3 main feeds coming into the panel, two hots and a ground. I understand the neutral bar and ground bar are bonded there, so would I still need to run a neutral and ground from that panel to the barn panel? If I end up running 4 wire, I run my two hots to barn panel, 1 neutral and 1 ground and then another 10 ft ground to a ground rod?

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[s219]

You'd really want 2-2-2-4 for the run. Not sure if it's legal to have a separate ground, though it may be ok for underground run as long as it's tied into metal grounding on the ends. For interior wiring, it would probably be a no-no.

Your last question is the correct approach.

By the way, your main service should have two hots and a neutral, not two hots and a ground.

 

[buickanddeere]

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Here in Saskatchewan because of good soil conductivity earth return is used throughout the vast majority of the province on both existing and new construction. Our Distribution three phase system is a WYE system with 25,000 V phase-to-phase and 14,400 V to earth.

The three phase distribution system doesn't carry primary neutral current on a Delta -Wye system.the problem arises on single phase high and low voltage distribution. VD on the neutral induces current flow through the ground rods places about every 10th pole.
In hind sight everything should have been routed with two live lines on single phase.
Ontario has a varied mixture of a little ancient 2.3KV, mostly 4800v for single phase distribution, 13.8/27KV and 44KV for supplies from substations to the surrounding towns and local step down distribution to 4800. Transmission lines from generators and rising the electrical grid together is 115/230/500KV.

 

[buickanddeere]

Ok, now I am really confused. Here are my questions....I initially bought 2-2-4 wire....will this suffice as the two hots and a neutral? If not, can I just go buy a single run of wire and use it as the ground if I have to run 4 wire? My main service panel at the house has 3 main feeds coming into the panel, two hots and a ground. I understand the neutral bar and ground bar are bonded there, so would I still need to run a neutral and ground from that panel to the barn panel? If I end up running 4 wire, I run my two hots to barn panel, 1 neutral and 1 ground and then another 10 ft ground to a ground rod?

It's two live lines and a neutral coming from the utility to the house. How pray tell after you have been told how many times that a neutral conductor carries neutral current ? That you are calling the neutral a ground ?

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[Mac25]

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My house panel has the neutral bar on the left and ground bar on the right, 2 big wires going to the main breaker and 1 big wire going to the right side ground bar, thats why I am calling it a ground.

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[buickanddeere]

Mac it''s not ground . It's a neutral . Tell me what current is flowing through the wire and bar?
As for your panel it is antiquated and dangerous so change it out . Show me your electrical credentials .

 

[GLyford]

The town I grew up in had a dairy farmer getting 5-10v stray currents on a ground return system when the pole itself was used as the grounding conductor up to the overhead wire. It was enough to unsettle the cows and measurably affect production.

Solution was to make the utility use an actual grounding wire and rod at each pole along the street in front of the farm. A few years later, they did a routine pole replacement along that stretch, and pocketted the ground straps. He had to force them to do it all again.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Mac, pull a permit for the subpanel and ask for an inspection of your house panel. Ask questions from the inspector before you do or buy anything else. Then do what he says and get inspections at the stages he requests.