Portable Generators

[mfridenmaker]

You might want to check this out to at least see one of your options. I have a friend who had an electrician install this system and he loves it. This system allows for smaller generators and automatically manages loads based on an established hierarchy. I'm one more power outage away from being motivated enough myself.

Honda HP2S Portable Power Systems: Universal Transfer Switch

 

[mikehaugen]

I don't see the big danger of back feeding a panel as long as you are diligent about turning off the main breaker. Am I missing something?

 

[MikePA]

I don't see the big danger of back feeding a panel as long as you are diligent about turning off the main breaker. Am I missing something?

I think what you're missing is you're not a lineman, out in bad weather, trying to repair their little section of the electrical grid.

Also, odds are the current draw from all the appliances the generator will power will be running through a single 220v outlet.

 

[Humblebub]

I am not an electrician but a friend who is a linesman tried to describe how power can find its way back through a ground fault of some sort. I did not understand but he was convincing so I spent the $200(ish) for a manual switch. I don't know what I am talking about but I am ok listening to someone who does.

 

[Retired Iron Peddler]

We're on at the end of a long REA power line and are one of the last to have power restored when an outage occurs. Our longest outage has been 56 hours and the temperature was below freezing the whole time which is tough in an all electric house. We have had to get by with a Generac 4kw portable generator, extension cords, our wood stove, and a portable 240 volt portable heater. I got tired of messing with the portable generator, feeding it gasoline, and rigging up extension cords and none of which my wife could do in my absence. A couple of years ago I invested in a Kohler 20kw LP gas powered whole house standby generator. It was one of the best things I have done. It easily runs our 4-ton heat pump and other appliances. (The emergency heat strips on the heat pump are locked out when on generator power.) So far it has over 50 hours of running time and has worked flawlessly when the utility power goes off both in summer and winter. The generator automatically starts and comes on line in 10 seconds when a power outage occurs...no muss, no fuss and I don't have to worry about a power outage if I'm away from home.


Bill

 

[mikehaugen]

I think what you're missing is you're not a lineman, out in bad weather, trying to repair their little section of the electrical grid.

Also, odds are the current draw from all the appliances the generator will power will be running through a single 220v outlet.

That's why I am asking, it was a serious question. My assumption was that the problems came from people just back-feeding without turning off the breaker, and a transfer switch would make that impossible, but essentially perform the same task. If there is more to it I am curious. I don't have a generator so I have never done it, but couldn't see the risk. I am willing to learn.

 

[BAP]

The biggest factor is the human factor. Back feeding thru an outlet can be done without doing anything to shut the power off to the grid. If the person doing it forgets to shut off the main breaker, their house will still be powered and power will flow out to the street. With a transfer switch, the way they are permanently wired up, the only way you can get power into the house from the generator, is to throw the switch, shutting off access to the grid. It is basically a fail safe system. Yes it adds expense of the switch and wiring, but is the safest route to go.

 

[MikePA]

That's why I am asking, it was a serious question. My assumption was that the problems came from people just back-feeding without turning off the breaker, and a transfer switch would make that impossible, but essentially perform the same task. If there is more to it I am curious. I don't have a generator so I have never done it, but couldn't see the risk. I am willing to learn.

BAP explained it well. The other risk is the one I mentioned, i.e., the generator feeding your entire house through a single 220v outlet.

Phase 1 - Extension Cord Mode - Like several others have shared, I started out with a portable generator and extension cords. The generator was pull start and it was loud. I had to be home to start it and layout the cords, usually bringing in a single cord in a partially open window from the generator, which was really fun in the winter. While the generator had a 220v outlet, I never took the step of connecting it to our 220v well pump.

This solution worked for a while and was better than nothing.

Phase 2 - Transfer Switch Mode - Happens when you get tired of running extension cords all over the place and install a transfer switch. Some opt for an automatic switch, others manual. You still have to be home to start the generator and flip the switch.

Phase 3 - Automatic Transfer Switch and Auto Generator Start Mode - When you get tired of having to be home to initiate, you get an automatic transfer switch installed that automatically starts your generator. No extension cords, no need to be home to start the process. There are variations of Phase 3. Some have generators they have to keep supplied with gasoline or diesel, some still use portable generators, some opt for permanent installations, others feed with NG or LP.

It all depends on how frequent outages are in your area, how long they last, and your lifestyle. Are you home to start the generator? Are you home to fill the tank? etc.

I am in Phase 3 using an automatic transfer switch that auto starts a Honda generator that powers all the circuits we need, including the well pump. The auto switch only supports one 220v circuit, so we can't power the hot water heater, so we only have hot water for a day or two, but for our area, that is usually not a problem. If it would become an issue, I could switch to an LP hot water heater.

 

[Cherokee140]

That's why I am asking, it was a serious question. My assumption was that the problems came from people just back-feeding without turning off the breaker, and a transfer switch would make that impossible, but essentially perform the same task. If there is more to it I am curious. I don't have a generator so I have never done it, but couldn't see the risk. I am willing to learn.

It is very true what others have said, and in some places it is against the law to do that. All that said however if you do flip the mains there is no danger to anything outside the house. Before we installed our "whole house" system that is just what I did. First with a 110 system that ran half the panel, then with a 220 that we ran via the dryer outlet.

All that said it is not suggested. Flipping the mains however is something you need to keep in the back of your head. We lost power for 18 days once, and ran the propane tank dry (500gal) that ran the entire house plus the stand by gen. We fell back to the gas generator and dryer outlet to keep from freezing to death. There are times when you have to do what you have to do.

Now all that said make sure you get a GOOD generator or at least feed it through something that will clean up the power. Most of the stuff in your house is computer controlled and that includes you furnace. You can fry stuff with dirty power from these generators.

I would never suggest someone flip the breakers and "backfeed" it is very dangerous to the people out there in the freezing weather trying to do their job.....too many people are just flat too stupid to "flip the mains".

Our "hole house" system is just big enough to run a few lights, the Furnace blower, (propane furnace) the freezers and fridge and an outlet here and there. My system is 4000 watts and is more then enough....and I think I bought the unit for under $1000 with the automatic transfer switch and had it installed for ~ $800. It auto runs, propane is a very clean fuel so oil changes are not much to worry about.....just a big lawn mower engine. and really that is about it.

To tell the truth the biggest pain with the entire project was getting the concrete pad poured.....and it has worked great, Just if you think you are going to lose power stock up on food you can microwave.

 

[Threepoint]

Found this interesting piece on six dangers of backfeeding a generator. Disconnecting the main service entrance breaker doesn't protect against all of them.

http://www.qsl.net/kc5qhh/backfeeddangers.pdf