Any news on gas engine CUTS?

[GManBart]

The DI gas chosen for the vehicle is a smaller , lower output engine than the diesel. How is that a mystery, a point or concern? We are talking the same cruze Delta II chassis with gas vs Diesel engine .
The point is which are skirting is the gas costs less per mile . The gas car costs less to purchase than the diesel car. The Diesel was cost more to service in the future . Last Cat Converter I priced was $169 for a Terrain.
The V8 gas engine in the Camero makes more power than a Duramax Diesel, so what.
You are stuck thinking of a Gas engine in a 300HP field tractor performing heavy tillage. Not the case.The DI gas is for the light duty under 50HP CUT, boats, ATV, RTV, lawn equipment , light highway vehicles etc.

I'm not stuck on anything. The larger diesel, which makes more power and gobs more torque gets better fuel mileage....simple. All of the "advantages" you claim for the DI gasser don't change reality.

When the artificially high diesel prices correct back below gas prices, the way they have in the rest of the world, there won't be any way to argue your point.

 

[buickanddeere]

I'm not stuck on anything. The larger diesel, which makes more power and gobs more torque gets better fuel mileage....simple. All of the "advantages" you claim for the DI gasser don't change reality.

When the artificially high diesel prices correct back below gas prices, the way they have in the rest of the world, there won't be any way to argue your point.

Why would diesel become cheaper in the US ? The oil companies like the profits.
Do you deny the gasoline Cruze costs less per mile than the diesel Cruze. If you look at pickup trucks the gas also costs less per mile than diesel.
If you wish to drive a performance vehicle, neither the diesel or gas Cruze qualify as "performance".

 

[GManBart]

Why would diesel become cheaper in the US ? The oil companies like the profits.
Do you deny the gasoline Cruze costs less per mile than the diesel Cruze. If you look at pickup trucks the gas also costs less per mile than diesel.
If you wish to drive a performance vehicle, neither the diesel or gas Cruze qualify as "performance".

Again, you don't read what other people write. I've already pointed out why diesel will drop down lower than gasoline. For one, that's what has happened in the rest of the world after the refineries pay off the up front ULSD costs. Two, most of those companies are worldwide companies, so what they've done in other countries is very likely what they're going to do in this country. Three, you may have noticed that the price of gas has dropped dramatically in the last few months...like by 50% or so? They like profits, but they dropped the price of gas because their costs went down....and they didn't make a minor change, they made a drastic change. If they were operating on your philosophy, they might have dropped the price 10% and people would have been happy while they made record profits....didn't happen.

I'm don't "deny" anything. I've said what is factual; a diesel Cruze uses less fuel per mile than a gasoline Cruze. The price of those two fuels will drive the final "cost per mile" and there is no way around that.

I never said a Cruze was a performance vehicle, I said the diesel model performs better. If I was buying a relatively inexpensive, fuel efficient vehicle, I'd be happy to pay more for the diesel option if it performed better and got better fuel mileage.

Why do you keep avoiding the topic that the DI gasser is smaller, and has all sorts of benefits (according to you), but it gets worse fuel economy, makes less power, and gobs less torque? That's proof your theory is completely flawed.

 

[hutchman]

Why do you keep avoiding the topic that the DI gasser is smaller, and has all sorts of benefits (according to you), but it gets worse fuel economy, makes less power, and gobs less torque? That's proof your theory is completely flawed.

And causes more pollution than my pre-2007 diesel without a DPF.

 

[buickanddeere]

Again, you don't read what other people write. I've already pointed out why diesel will drop down lower than gasoline. For one, that's what has happened in the rest of the world after the refineries pay off the up front ULSD costs. Two, most of those companies are worldwide companies, so what they've done in other countries is very likely what they're going to do in this country. Three, you may have noticed that the price of gas has dropped dramatically in the last few months...like by 50% or so? They like profits, but they dropped the price of gas because their costs went down....and they didn't make a minor change, they made a drastic change. If they were operating on your philosophy, they might have dropped the price 10% and people would have been happy while they made record profits....didn't happen.

I'm don't "deny" anything. I've said what is factual; a diesel Cruze uses less fuel per mile than a gasoline Cruze. The price of those two fuels will drive the final "cost per mile" and there is no way around that.

I never said a Cruze was a performance vehicle, I said the diesel model performs better. If I was buying a relatively inexpensive, fuel efficient vehicle, I'd be happy to pay more for the diesel option if it performed better and got better fuel mileage.

Why do you keep avoiding the topic that the DI gasser is smaller, and has all sorts of benefits (according to you), but it gets worse fuel economy, makes less power, and gobs less torque? That's proof your theory is completely flawed.

I already told you the reasons but you don't read.
Diesel is not coming down in the US because there is more profit to me made.
The refinery upgrades and equipment were paid off between 2009 and 2011 in the standard business model. The price of ULSD is not coming down due to lower refining costs.
Other countries around the world diesel is not cheaper because it's lower cost to produce. Diesel is cheaper because the governments tax diesel lass than gasoline.
Are you denying the gas Cruze costs less to purchase, costs less for fuel per miles and future service costs will be lower than diesel?

 

[buickanddeere]

And causes more pollution than my pre-2007 diesel without a DPF.

How about a 2015 gas vs 2015 pollution? The again who cares, both are clean. It's just it costs more to make the heavier dirtier diesel fuel burn as clean as gasoline.

 

[MossRoad]

Are you denying the gas Cruze costs less to purchase, costs less for fuel per miles and future service costs will be lower than diesel?

Since we're talking tractors, the gas Cruze can't do nearly the same amount of work as the diesel version so the comparison is kind of dissimilar. You have mentioned that people don't need that power in a car. Are you suggesting they don't need it in a tractor? Face it. Gasoline engines can't stay in the torque curve when a load is applied as well as diesel engines. Its a fact. Until that gas engine is developed that can match the torque holding ability of a diesel, you'll never see the return of gas engines in modern tractors.

Personally, I hate diesel engines. My current tractor is gas. My cars are gas. One's a GDI. I love it. But facts are facts and you're beating a dead horse here. Gas engines in cars designed to move people from point A to point B can't be compared to tractors designed to do hard work for long periods of time. Its two completely different tasks. While my IH2500b had a gas engine, and it could do serious work, it was only a power source for a hydraulic pump. It had to be run at near full throttle to provide the hydraulic pressure needed to turn the wheels and PTO effectively. While the diesel equivalent of the same tractor was close to the same power, it had better fuel economy and the diesel engine was simpler. Why didn't IH keep putting gas engines in tractors? Why are most tractors in the last 40-50 years diesel? Why are most (I think all) large trucks diesel? Why are train engines diesel? Ship engines? I can't think of any modern heavy equipment at all that uses gasoline for a fuel. There's a reason for that. Diesel works better in those applications because it stays in the torque curve better. Gas engines don't.

 

[sd455dan]

Back in the 1960's with carburators and when diesel cost less than gasoline . What has the pump price of diesel vs gasoline been since 2006?
Are you at all familiar with the design and operation of a DI gasoline engine vs a carburated gasoline engine ?
Are you aware how much improved the thermal efficiency is of a 12.5 to 1 DI gas with variable cam timing vs a 7 to 1 carburated gas engine ?

Yes I am aware of many of the new advancements in engine design- heck i would love to own a new Vette with a hopped up LS engine getting 30+ mpg hi-way and new Muscle car power.


Newest v-8 i own is a LT-1
I am more into OLD school

Kind of busy building- a .030 Pontiac 455 (462) by borrowing old research done by Jim hand ( 4000 + lbs. 1970 Lemans wagon that has run 11.60 in the quarter @ 117) optimizing the pontiac 455 inherent strengths and utilizing vintage pontiac tech.
Engine is going into a sub 2800 lb. vehicle... I think it will have (adequate) passing power

Also customizing an 800 cfm Q-jet using Cliff Ruggles Q-jet book. The fuel curves on an optimized q jet have in some cases exceeded test mileage runs when compared to FAST efi systems utilizing wide band o2 feed back... although FAST now has had a few years to tweak fuel tables (open loop) ... in combination with changes to closed loop operation.


When i looked up the old ford diesels vs. gas there is virtually No difference in the engines ability to get the job done -and that includes low rpm torque output.

Personally i see no reason the manufacturers couldn't build a new hi tech gas tractor with up to 100 hp with little problem.

Still have doubts that it would come out very well- as far as fuel efficiency vs. a diesel especially when the ground engaging tasks start.

 

[Danny C]

25hp is 25 hp is 25hp.... same for gas or diesel. Its the ability of the diesel with most likely a larger displacement and longer crank arms to keep itself in the torque range easier than a gas engine that makes it able to not bog down when you hit tall grass.

25hp isn't 25hp. A 25hp diesel engine will make more torque than a 25hp gas engine, and will do it at a lower RPM with a much better torque curve. That is why most tractors use diesel rather than gas and diesels. Torque is important to keep hydraulic pumps and PTOs running.

 

[hutchman]

I kind of wasn't wanting to get into this but "performance" keeps coming up and the poor diesel is being painted as something only your grandpa would drive. Today's diesel isn't you daddy's car. In 2006 Audi started racing a TDI (diesel) R10 at Le Mans and it cleaned up. While everyone was in the pits refueling the R10 sipping Diesel was busy cleaning everyone's clock. Audi R10 TDI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Diesels From Audi and Peugeot at Le Mans - Why Audi and Peugeot Diesels Rule the Le Mans Raceway

The mileage numbers I've mentioned on TBN are on my chip tuned TDI. I have a custom tune, larger injectors, intake and exhaust ported. I can do more if I change turbos but my current setup will run 24psi boost. That psi boost is huge compared to what a gasser will handle. So while my TDI was 90HP stock with around 150ft. lbs. of torque, it is now around 140-160HP and has around 300ft. lbs. of torque ... around the same as my F-150.

I was in the process of getting a custom tune for my F-150 engine and transmission (the factory shift points are totally ignorant), headers and exhaust work, dropping the radiator fan/clutch for an e-fan etc. ... and I would of gotten a few MPG's more. I didn't complete all these mods because I realized I wouldn't enjoy it much as I couldn't afford for it to be my daily driver. So those mods went into the TDI. So I can drive the TDI like I stole it and have all kinds of fun wearing out my tires and still get 41MPG combined. So any of you that doubt a diesel can be "performance" AND economical, just read about the Audi I mentioned our come by my house and take my car for a spin. I guarantee it will put a smile on your face.