The reality of aluminum body panels.

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   / The reality of aluminum body panels. #261  
Just wondering....what was the age and approximate mileage on the cars you looked at? My Saturn is a low mileage 67,000 mile example that had been babied which probably explains why is it pristine....your input will determine whether I trade it in this fall for an Equinox...thanks for your opinion !!!!
I believe they were at least 10 years old with over 100K.

Besides the rusted frames, our mechanic also suspected flood damage as he said there was sand in places there shouldn't be, which is a good indication of that. But he said the flood damage didn't cause the rusted frames and shouldn't be used to judge the make and model as a whole. That was just from salt, wear and tear and we saw it on "metal" bodied cars as well.
 
   / The reality of aluminum body panels. #262  
Our 2013 Impala has plastic bumper and areas below where the fog lights would be (if we got the d-lux version). Around Thanksgiving as I was backing out of a driveway, I managed to snag that whole lower right corner on a 4x4 post that was sticking out of the ground about 12". It caved the entire area in about the size of a deflated basketball. I thought it was toast and would have to be visiting a junkyard. However, I pushed it out as best I could, was still not happy with the results, and went to a wedding. After the wedding, I showed my wife the damage, and it was GONE! It had popped itself out. There's still a small scratch and crease, but nothing you'd notice unless you looked for it. I was pretty happy with that. :)
 
   / The reality of aluminum body panels. #263  
The standard wheel size on 2015 Chevys, Fords and Dodges are 17". Bigger wheels are options. They're offered because that's what some people want to buy. They know pickup buyers primary interests are load capacity, which is increased with lighter parts, and mileage, also increased with lighter parts. Some buyers are interested in looks, so they offer a lot of options that add weight. It's about choices.

I believe on either 2007 or 2008 and up gm 1/2 tons you can not fit the old 16" rims on them 17" is needed to clear the caliper bridges. GM changed the brakes in the last year of the GMT800 pickups which drove 17" to be standard
 
   / The reality of aluminum body panels. #264  
When I was younger, I read a story about the Fiero and how it was made. They built the frame on a jig with boxes on the frame filled with epoxy or something like that. Then the frame went to some machine that drilled all the body mounting holes into those boxes at the same time. When a Fiero got wrecked, all they had to do was repair/straighten the frame to factory specs, fill the boxes with epoxy and redrill the holes. It was called the space frame. Here's a good story on the history of that car...
Kill Your Darlings: The Birth and Death of the Pontiac Fiero - Ate Up With Motor

If you repaired it to the factory spec's, why would you have to re-drill the holes?

I actually owned, and repaired, my wife's '84 Fiero, after it got rear-ended by a 5 ton truck. At the time, it was only 6 months old, and there was little known about repairing one.

In 1984, most car bodies were built without precision. Generally, there was enough slop in the mounting holes, and an occasional shim used, to make things fit fairly well. However, it was not at all uncommon for the sheet metal on one side of a vehicle, to fit better than the other. Or, for one car to have better fitting sheet metal, than another.

In fact, the first thing a bodyman usually did, if he bought a new car, was spend an hour, with a wrench, and a pocket full of shims, re-aligning the doors, the fenders, the hood, and the trunk, to his satisfaction.

The Fiero was the beginning of the concept, of making everything fit precisely, right out of the box. By using a jug that ground, and drilled, all the mounting blocks for the entire vehicle at one time, they were able to fit them all the same. Any variance in the under structure, called a "space frame", was eliminated, when this jig was lowered on to it.

The "mill and drill" pads were simply epoxy blocks that acted like shims, to set the height. They were drilled, to allow metal screws to anchor the body panels into the steel body structure under them.

You did not re-fill the epoxy, during a repair. You either reused it as it was, replaced them with new, or put a shim with it, if needed. People quickly learned, trying to figure out how to "mill" the new pads to the correct height, during a repair, was impossible. So, they were generally reused.

Because the outer panels had little room for adjustment, it was no fun repairing a Fiero. They required precision, that was not available with the equipment available at the time. Few guys looked forward to working on them.

Today, all cars are built with a high degree of accuracy, and little adjustment in the outer panels. Many even have the door hinges welded on, so their is no adjustment in them at all. We have now developed the skills to deal with them, as well as better measuring equipment that simplifies repairing them.
 
   / The reality of aluminum body panels. #265  
Picture the modern semi truck.... except for the frame, it is all aluminum, plastic, or fiberglass. And even then, frames and even differential housings can be spec'd as aluminum. Always wondered what took the pickup OEM's so long to join the party. And they are just getting in the game! Heavy truck OEM's have been playing this game for decades now.
 
   / The reality of aluminum body panels. #266  
I read most posts from the start of this thread. Here's my contribution.

I traded my 2013 F350 for a 2015 F350, right when I learned about the F150 aluminum body, and that Ford was testing the F350 (Super Duty Series) with aluminum bodies. I thought perhaps mid year or 2016, Ford could switch to aluminum bodies and I wanted none of that, so I bought steel while I could.

Like all metals, every metal has it pros and cons in different climates and exposures to the elements.

Aluminum DOES have its drawbacks. Aluminum does have many types of corrosion; i.e.,

galvanic corrosion (when you secure a steel bolt to the aluminum body, the aluminum is the softer metal and becomes the sacrificial metal),

add oxidation corrosion,

pitting corrosion,

crevice corrosion.

It's not as easy as sandblasting, welding or grinding it away. It forms microscopic voids that you can not weld or paint over and expect it to be perfect. When you paint over these voids it might initially appear perfect to the eye, until you retrieve it from the paint oven to find tiny bubbles or indents where it boiled. You have to cut it away or replace it with new aluminum.

I've seen perfectly painted paint jobs (with no air intrusion nor any damage of any kind, I mean perfect!) separate (lifted) from aluminum panels caused by mere millivolts of difference in the metals, unlike steel. You need cathodic protection for this, otherwise you are guaranteed to experience this and learn the expensive lesson the hard way.

Road salt, road de-ice liquid chemicals, dirt (mud), water with chlorine and electrolysis destroys aluminum. Aluminum dissolves when exposed to road salt over time!

Aluminum have it's place, but working for years with both metals and knowing there shortcomings, I went for steel for longevity and resale value in a truck.


If you are thin skin, and RoadHunter's link was too much for you already in this thread, please keep moving along, nothing to see here ;-)
 
   / The reality of aluminum body panels. #267  
I read most posts from the start of this thread. Here's my contribution.

I traded my 2013 F350 for a 2015 F350, right when I learned about the F150 aluminum body, and that Ford was testing the F350 (Super Duty Series) with aluminum bodies. I thought perhaps mid year or 2016, Ford could switch to aluminum bodies and I wanted none of that, so I bought steel while I could.

Like all metals, every metal has it pros and cons in different climates and exposures to the elements.

Aluminum DOES have its drawbacks. Aluminum does have many types of corrosion; i.e.,

galvanic corrosion (when you secure a steel bolt to the aluminum body, the aluminum is the softer metal and becomes the sacrificial metal),

add oxidation corrosion,

pitting corrosion,

crevice corrosion.

It's not as easy as sandblasting, welding or grinding it away. It forms microscopic voids that you can not weld or paint over and expect it to be perfect. When you paint over these voids it might initially appear perfect to the eye, until you retrieve it from the paint oven to find tiny bubbles or indents where it boiled. You have to cut it away or replace it with new aluminum.

I've seen perfectly painted paint jobs (with no air intrusion nor any damage of any kind, I mean perfect!) separate (lifted) from aluminum panels caused by mere millivolts of difference in the metals, unlike steel. You need cathodic protection for this, otherwise you are guaranteed to experience this and learn the expensive lesson the hard way.

Road salt, road de-ice liquid chemicals, dirt (mud), water with chlorine and electrolysis destroys aluminum. Aluminum dissolves when exposed to road salt over time!

Aluminum have it's place, but working for years with both metals and knowing there shortcomings, I went for steel for longevity and resale value in a truck.


If you are thin skin, and RoadHunter's link was too much for you already in this thread, please keep moving along, nothing to see here ;-)

The only thing I could think of the entire time I was reading that: "Man, I wish I had the cash to ditch a 2 year old truck just because of some thought in the back of my mind that the next truck may be aluminum and there may be a remote chance that it may have problems and may not last as long and may not have the resale value."

Then, when I finished, I thought, "Hmmm, the possible loss in resale value due to an aluminum truck is surely much less than the bath you take ditching a 2 year old truck just because of some thought in the back of your mind that the next truck may be aluminum and there may be a remote chance that it may have problems and may not last as long and may not have the resale value."

With all these negatives of aluminum, I'm surprised there are any hoods left at all on 10+ year old F150s out running around.
 
   / The reality of aluminum body panels. #268  
Picture the modern semi truck.... except for the frame, it is all aluminum, plastic, or fiberglass. And even then, frames and even differential housings can be spec'd as aluminum. Always wondered what took the pickup OEM's so long to join the party. And they are just getting in the game! Heavy truck OEM's have been playing this game for decades now.

Aluminum will never work for the modern semi truck. No way. Steel is the only way. Aluminum doesn't stand a chance in any road based. vehicle. OH WAIT ! It has for decades? Oh.
 
   / The reality of aluminum body panels. #269  
Aluminum will never work for the modern semi truck. No way. Steel is the only way. Aluminum doesn't stand a chance in any road based. vehicle. OH WAIT ! It has for decades? Oh.

But semis don't drive in areas where there is salt, so corrosion won't be a problem for them, right?
 
   / The reality of aluminum body panels. #270  
Road salt, road de-ice liquid chemicals, dirt (mud), water with chlorine and electrolysis destroys aluminum. Aluminum dissolves when exposed to road salt over time!

Too bad for over half of the cars on the road. Their aluminum wheels are going to dissolve when exposed to road salt! There will be car crashes all over the place when the aluminum wheels dissolve underneath them as they drive on salted roads! Good grief. The sky is falling upon our flat earth!
 
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