Is this right? I can tow MORE with a bumper pull than I can a Gooseneck?

[joshuabardwell]

A lot of us don't intend to stay under....that was my point. Back in the 80's all the hot shots with 1tons were way over, but they did it.Those days are gone. Yes I see all the calculations....all in all, IMHO, a gooseneck is safer. Put another way, I would rather pull an over loaded GN with an underrated than a overloaded BP with an underrated truck.

I think you're right, but god forbid you get in an accident while towing over your GVWR. Somebody once told a story here on TBN about a truck driver they knew who T-boned a person who ran a red light and killed them. The car driver was 100% in the wrong, but the truck driver went to prison for manslaughter because he was towing over his weight rating. It really stuck with me.

 

[Ken45101]

I think you're right, but god forbid you get in an accident while towing over your GVWR. Somebody once told a story here on TBN about a truck driver they knew who T-boned a person who ran a red light and killed them. The car driver was 100% in the wrong, but the truck driver went to prison for manslaughter because he was towing over his weight rating. It really stuck with me.

"Someone once told a story..." The Internet is full of stories passed on, many of them false. We keep hearing such stories here but can anyone produce a specific verifiable reference? Or perhaps it was because he was so grossly overweight that his brakes didn't work and he otherwise would have avoided the accident?

Just because one judge and/or jury goes beserk doesn't mean that it's typical. Think the MacDonald's coffee case. McD's is still selling hot coffee. I'll bet if I spill coffee I'm not going to collect with a local jury.

 

[joshuabardwell]

"Someone once told a story..." The Internet is full of stories passed on, many of them false. We keep hearing such stories here but can anyone produce a specific verifiable reference? Or perhaps it was because he was so grossly overweight that his brakes didn't work and he otherwise would have avoided the accident?

Asking for evidence is a fair point. Personally, I'm not going to risk my freedom and my future financial security on the good graces of a DOT officer or a personal injury lawyer. "Yes, I was overweight, but I promise that's not why the accident occurred!"

I took a firearm safety case from Massad Ayoob some years ago. He is a law enforcement officer, professional firearms instructor, and professional expert witness in firearms cases, so this isn't just a case of "some guy" saying it. He talked at length about how when you are in front of a jury, it is critical to minimize the number of ways that the prosecution (or the plaintiff, in a civil case) can pick you apart and make you look bad. If you modified the trigger on your gun, that can be used to discredit you, even if in reality the modification was irrelevant. I think of that general approach when I think about whether I want to tow overweight or not. You, me, and the gatepost may be certain that my truck is safer with a gooseneck than with a bumper pull, and we may be right, but if worst comes to worst, some lawyer is going to point to the manufacturer's spec sheet for the truck and ask whether I was over it. And if that day comes, I want to be able to say, "No, I was not."

The difference between guns and trailers, to me, is that I am pretty much in control of who I shoot, and I am very unlikely to ever shoot anybody. But I am NOT in control of who I get into an accident with on the road, and I am very likely to get into an accident or two in the years I have left.

Think the MacDonald's coffee case. McD's is still selling hot coffee. I'll bet if I spill coffee I'm not going to collect with a local jury.

The McDonald's case is commonly held up as an example of an un-deserving plaintiff winning an un-just award from an incompetent jury. The facts about the case are actually not well known, and support the plaintiff in many ways. You can read up here if you like: https://www.ttla.com/index.cfm?pg=McDonaldsCoffeeCaseFacts

 

[two_bit_score]

"Someone once told a story..." The Internet is full of stories passed on, many of them false. We keep hearing such stories here but can anyone produce a specific verifiable reference? Or perhaps it was because he was so grossly overweight that his brakes didn't work and he otherwise would have avoided the accident?

Just because one judge and/or jury goes beserk doesn't mean that it's typical. Think the MacDonald's coffee case. McD's is still selling hot coffee. I'll bet if I spill coffee I'm not going to collect with a local jury.

Asking for evidence is a fair point. Personally, I'm not going to risk my freedom and my future financial security on the good graces of a DOT officer or a personal injury lawyer. "Yes, I was overweight, but I promise that's not why the accident occurred!"

I took a firearm safety case from Massad Ayoob some years ago. He is a law enforcement officer, professional firearms instructor, and professional expert witness in firearms cases, so this isn't just a case of "some guy" saying it. He talked at length about how when you are in front of a jury, it is critical to minimize the number of ways that the prosecution (or the plaintiff, in a civil case) can pick you apart and make you look bad. If you modified the trigger on your gun, that can be used to discredit you, even if in reality the modification was irrelevant. I think of that general approach when I think about whether I want to tow overweight or not. You, me, and the gatepost may be certain that my truck is safer with a gooseneck than with a bumper pull, and we may be right, but if worst comes to worst, some lawyer is going to point to the manufacturer's spec sheet for the truck and ask whether I was over it. And if that day comes, I want to be able to say, "No, I was not."

The difference between guns and trailers, to me, is that I am pretty much in control of who I shoot, and I am very unlikely to ever shoot anybody. But I am NOT in control of who I get into an accident with on the road, and I am very likely to get into an accident or two in the years I have left.



The McDonald's case is commonly held up as an example of an un-deserving plaintiff winning an un-just award from an incompetent jury. The facts about the case are actually not well known, and support the plaintiff in many ways. You can read up here if you like: https://www.ttla.com/index.cfm?pg=McDonaldsCoffeeCaseFacts

While there may be some isolated validity to what joshuabardwell says about the very specific issues in the 'McDonald's Coffee Case' that particular case has taken on a generic context reference to all outlandish plaintiff cases - kind of like kleenix and coke and became synonymous with tissue and cola drinks. While I have sympathy with plaintiff's fairly often on individual cases and make a good portion of my meager sustenance on plaintiff consultations the tort reform movement is valid and still currently in control of the civil justice system. The only people going to the courthouse nowadays are mostly family law practitioners.

I feel like it's reasonable to conclude that Ken45101 used the reference to the 'McDonald Coffee Case' in the generic sense and therefore he is correct.

 

[Ken45101]

I took a firearm safety case from Massad Ayoob some years ago. He is a law enforcement officer, professional firearms instructor, and professional expert witness in firearms cases,

Oh please, don't quote Ayoob to me, I have no respect for the man, he is just a paid hack writer who claims more expertise than is justified. His best expertise is in self promotion.

Back to the actual topic, I certainly do not believe in overloading, for my own safety. We traded in an F250 for a C3500 dually when we bought our horse camper and it was 300# too much on the rear truck axle. I could feel the rear end give in gentle curves. I didn't trust it, I'd rather be safe than sorry for my own safety. THAT's my real concern, not some hypothetical jury decision.

 

[Wnc3]

I think you're right, but god forbid you get in an accident while towing over your GVWR. Somebody once told a story here on TBN about a truck driver they knew who T-boned a person who ran a red light and killed them. The car driver was 100% in the wrong, but the truck driver went to prison for manslaughter because he was towing over his weight rating. It really stuck with me.

Point taken. From the liability stand point the card are stacked against you.
And when I said, "some of us don't intend to stay under" I did not mean me.... I try to always be under.
I should have been more clear.

But it sure relit the thread!

 

[bironacad]

I am looking at purchasing a trailer and went to a dealer who said 90% sold are bumper pull. He showed me a tandem with 7K axles, 20', more weight capacity then I need but hey we know shat happens down the road. I thought great my 2014 F350 dually will handle this no problem, wrong.

See:

http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/14_superdutypu_sep11.pdf

max tongue weight 850lbs or 1850lbs with WDH
15% of 14,000lbs 2,100lbs which exceeds bp with wdh, go figure, the salesman said I would be fine, lol.

So a twenty foot equipment trailer rated a 14,000lbs requires a gooseneck/fifth wheel hitch

 

[aczlan]

Note that the PDF says "Factory-Installed Trailer Hitch Receiver Options" you can change to a different receiver to get more capacity (up to your axle weight limits). Here are some rated for a 17-20k pound trailer with 2500-2700# of tongue weight: 2014 Ford F-250 and F-350 Super Duty Trailer Hitch Class V | etrailer.com

Aaron Z

 

[Diamondpilot]

I am looking at purchasing a trailer and went to a dealer who said 90% sold are bumper pull. He showed me a tandem with 7K axles, 20', more weight capacity then I need but hey we know shat happens down the road. I thought great my 2014 F350 dually will handle this no problem, wrong. See: http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/14_superdutypu_sep11.pdf max tongue weight 850lbs or 1850lbs with WDH 15% of 14,000lbs 2,100lbs which exceeds bp with wdh, go figure, the salesman said I would be fine, lol. So a twenty foot equipment trailer rated a 14,000lbs requires a gooseneck/fifth wheel hitch

It states 10 to 15%. So 1400# would do.

Chris

 

[TBarD]

I am looking at purchasing a trailer and went to a dealer who said 90% sold are bumper pull. He showed me a tandem with 7K axles, 20', more weight capacity then I need but hey we know shat happens down the road. I thought great my 2014 F350 dually will handle this no problem, wrong.

See:

http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/14_superdutypu_sep11.pdf

max tongue weight 850lbs or 1850lbs with WDH
15% of 14,000lbs 2,100lbs which exceeds bp with wdh, go figure, the salesman said I would be fine, lol.

So a twenty foot equipment trailer rated a 14,000lbs requires a gooseneck/fifth wheel hitch

I have a similar 14K trailer and fully loaded the tongue weight might get up to 1800, but only when it is fully loaded. However, I also have a gooseneck trailer and I much prefer that for hauling the tractor or other heavy loads. The GN rig is heavier, but more stable, and less hassle loading up as I don't have to mess with the WDH, and getting the load just right fore/aft. The bumper pull flat bed is fine though for things like pallet loads or lumber.