Grid-tied solar

[buckeyefarmer]

Head of tesla met last weekend with their head finance guy, according to todays paper.

 

[tcreeley]

We can't afford to go solar - but I keep thinking of my neighbor up the road who built his house from the ground up - off the grid. He heats with a wood boiler and has radiant floor heating. He has a passive hot water system for the times he does not have his boiler going. He has a backup generator if he needs to recharge his batteries. He has all of the modern electric facilities - but there is no electric service running to his house, no telephone line either. He is semi retired and works as a maintenance person in the schools. The technology is there, but the how-to knowledge on the part of builders is not that widespread. We have a local solar contractor in the area- whose services he made use of.
He was determined to have nothing to do with the local utility.

 

[ultrarunner]

We can't afford to go solar - but I keep thinking of my neighbor up the road who built his house from the ground up - off the grid. He heats with a wood boiler and has radiant floor heating. He has a passive hot water system for the times he does not have his boiler going. He has a backup generator if he needs to recharge his batteries. He has all of the modern electric facilities - but there is no electric service running to his house, no telephone line either. He is semi retired and works as a maintenance person in the schools. The technology is there, but the how-to knowledge on the part of builders is not that widespread. We have a local solar contractor in the area- whose services he made use of.
He was determined to have nothing to do with the local utility.

Many of my colleagues in Germany have solar and can heat with multi fuel systems... everything first rate... most are engineers.

I'm afraid the average American I know would be lost... managing rentals for 30 years has proven this many times... it's like no one under 30 can light a pilot light anymore.

 

[Redneck in training]

We can't afford to go solar - but I keep thinking of my neighbor up the road who built his house from the ground up - off the grid. He heats with a wood boiler and has radiant floor heating. He has a passive hot water system for the times he does not have his boiler going. He has a backup generator if he needs to recharge his batteries. He has all of the modern electric facilities - but there is no electric service running to his house, no telephone line either. He is semi retired and works as a maintenance person in the schools. The technology is there, but the how-to knowledge on the part of builders is not that widespread. We have a local solar contractor in the area- whose services he made use of.
He was determined to have nothing to do with the local utility.

It all depends:
You can finance it. Interest rates are low. If you get a second mortgage the interest is tax deductible. Then invest the Federal 30% and State alternative energy tax breaks to index fund or whatever you are comfortable with.
Return on investment depends on several factors:
1.) If you are able to install new breaker and outlet you can most likely install solar system. Saves lot of money. DIY can be installed for about $1.5/W (after tax rebate).
2.) Does your utility offer Net metering and/or PV subsidy? If they offer Net metering size your system to about your yearly electric energy consumption. Your energy bill will be zero. There still might be some fixed charge.
3.) PV system will shield you from electricity rate increases. Typical increase is in average 2%/year but might accelerate in the future.

Example:
1.) 10kW peak DC power.
2.) Cost $15000 (after tax rebates).
3.) Produces about 14500 kWh/year or $1450 Assuming electricity cost 10 cent/kWh/ will result in saving $120/month of energy charge.
4.) 10 year loan of $21400 at 5% interest will have $227 payment.
5.) $6400 tax break invested in Index fund will gain (assuming 8% historical gain) $512/year or 42/month.
6.) Mortgage interest (1st year, assuming 20% tax bracket) $1020 year or 85/month.

In other words you break even.

Most states offer financial incentives not included in the example above. Iowa offers interest free loan for 50% of the investment and 30% tax rebate up to maximum $3000.

 

[SirReal63]

For us the biggest issue with grid tied is you are tied to the grid, when it goes down you do not have power, which is why we went off grid (currently grid assist) for the guest house, it will always have electricity and we will always have a place with heat, a/c, water and hot water.

Add batteries to a 10kW system and it adds another 50% to the price, add great batteries with enough backup power to get you through a week of no sun and the price more than doubles. It seems a shame to spend all of that money for solar to not have any electrical freedom, but I do understand people using it to lower exorbitant electrical bills.

 

[Tororider]

Tesla is just about bankrupt. It's just about gone. Google Tesla bleeding through cash. HS

Tesla Probability Of Bankruptcy TSLA Nasdaq

Doesn't look like it to me. They were in the past and Musk has admitted he thought they would go bankrupt in 2008.

 

[houstonscott]

Do you actually believe that? Got any evidence? Or are you trolling again?

Tesla Bleeding Cash as Model S Hits Delays | New Car Pricing Insider Tesla Losses Tesla has racked up $1.3 billion in losses since 2008 and doesn’t expect to break even until 2020. The carmaker has been blunt about the challenges and costs of high-volume manufacturing. In an earnings call with analysts on Feb. 11, Tesla CEO and co-founder Elon Musk said the company was going to “spend staggering amounts of money” as it delivers the first Model X SUV to customers this summer, builds the gigafactory for battery production and designs the Model 3 sedan, due in the second half of 2017. “If Apple is starting now it would take a couple of years to catch up to Tesla,” said Ben Kallo, a San Francisco-based analyst for R.W. Baird. “Even after a car is designed, the competitors will have to source batteries in quantity and cost. Tesla is a couple of years ahead on this front.” There’s another big challenge. This is a car we’re talking about. After many decades of building cars, even the auto industry’s venerable players like Toyota and GM have stumbled at the seemingly simple task of making all of their vehicles free of safety defects. Yes, I do believe it, when you don't make money you go out of business. Looks like Apple might buy them with petty cash. Hope Apple doesn't get involved with products no one wants, like electric cars. HS

 

[Redneck in training]

For us the biggest issue with grid tied is you are tied to the grid, when it goes down you do not have power, which is why we went off grid (currently grid assist) for the guest house, it will always have electricity and we will always have a place with heat, a/c, water and hot water.

Add batteries to a 10kW system and it adds another 50% to the price, add great batteries with enough backup power to get you through a week of no sun and the price more than doubles. It seems a shame to spend all of that money for solar to not have any electrical freedom, but I do understand people using it to lower exorbitant electrical bills.

What I am saying is that if the circumstances are right people can afford solar and at least break even. Cost of panels dropped significantly since 2011 while interest rates are low and the installation is simple enough it can be done by DIY. The freedom from the utility and 100% availability of electric power is different issue altogether.

 

[houstonscott]

What I am saying is that if the circumstances are right people can afford solar and at least break even. Cost of panels dropped significantly since 2011 while interest rates are low and the installation is simple enough it can be done by DIY. The freedom from the utility and 100% availability of electric power is different issue altogether.

Going solar is like buying all your electrical power for 25 years at onetime. For most that's simply not a choice. It's like saying paying cash for your house is much cheaper, true but most just can't. Solar designed into the home design from the start and rolled into a mortgage might make sense for many. Young people forging granite counters for solar makes more sense. HS

 

[SirReal63]

I believe in solar, or we wouldn't be going with it, but any investment that breaks even isn't a good investment. I don't understand spending large amounts of money with no gain from it.