Dealing with pipes freezing?

[nybirdman]

They do make "anti-freeze" for hot water heating systems;that is what I would suggest.I never heard of using heat tapes on a hot water system;cold domestic yes.
Hard to believe hot water will freeze quicker than cold water.
I worked in the pipefitting trade for 40+years,installed many such systems and the anti-freeze is the way to go.
Insulation should help some also.

 

[jymbee]

They do make "anti-freeze" for hot water heating systems;that is what I would suggest.I never heard of using heat tapes on a hot water system;cold domestic yes.
Hard to believe hot water will freeze quicker than cold water.
I worked in the pipefitting trade for 40+years,installed many such systems and the anti-freeze is the way to go.
Insulation should help some also.

Thanks for the input bird. It's not that the hot water is freezing, rather the copper heat pipes are prone to freezing when the thermostat doesn't call for heat for too long a period with outside temps well below zero. An odd situation given the heat generated by the wood fired add-on which does a great job with the upper levels. But I see your point about the types of systems mentioned being used primarily for cold water feeds-- not heating pipes.

I've heard from some that that adding that kind of anti-freeze you mention reduces the overall efficiency of a hot water heating system. Is that an overstatement?

I do have insulation in that area which probably has prevented freeze-ups for "normal" cold temps nearer zero but isn't enough for those super cold nights.

 

[Coyote machine]

Propoylene Glycol, the non-toxic type anti-freeze used in the heating system and solar domestic water collectors does reduce the overall heat transfer more than just water, but it's a trade off. One can't run just water in pipes exposed to potential freezing temps, so the losses are just what is necessary. In your case, if you can find a way to keep drafts from chilling the pipes when there is no circulation of heat through them, that might accomplish your needed outcome. Spray foam, pipe insulation, heat tapes, etc. could all contribute to a temporary solution, and finding a more permanent solution after the freezing weather is over would be your best outcome, IMHO.

 

[nybirdman]

I have seen what you described (hot water has less oxygen that's why it freezes quicker),try it with an ice cube tray.Once the flow stops in your heating system the hot water will freeze quicker than a cold water line.
As Coyote Machine stated;it's a trade off;you don't run straight water in your car;it's the same thing.
If you don't have any leaks in your system it will be a one time affair to add anti-freeze.Purchase from a plumbing supply company not automotive anti-freeze.
In the great North we have to do these kind of things.

 

[Coyote machine]

If your system is zoned properly, you should be able to just add Propylene Glycol to that zone, and not to the entire system. It may require periodic draining and renewal to allow for proper heat exchange and flow through the particular zone, just like in a car radiator, it tends to gum up over time, and it's freeze protection diminishes. Make sure there is a backflow preventer on your domestic water supply lines too.

 

[nybirdman]

If your system is zoned properly, you should be able to just add Propylene Glycol to that zone, and not to the entire system. It may require periodic draining and renewal to allow for proper heat exchange and flow through the particular zone, just like in a car radiator, it tends to gum up over time, and it's freeze protection diminishes. Make sure there is a backflow preventer on your domestic water supply lines too.

You lost me on this one;how do you separate a zone from a residential heating system?You have a common boiler and multiple zones off that boiler,all the water is common to the system.
The back flow preventer is correct but only needed on the make-up to the boiler.I would think once added you should be good for quite a few years, a test may be needed every three or so.

 

[tractchores]

I would re-route the pipes. Sounds like you have a drop ceiling. Make as little go on the foundation sill as you can. You can also use Pex, which tolerates freezing a bit better if it does freeze. We just did this at one of our houses with good luck. I would also seal any areas cold air can infiltrate and insulate.

 

[Coyote machine]

You lost me on this one;how do you separate a zone from a residential heating system?You have a common boiler and multiple zones off that boiler,all the water is common to the system.
The back flow preventer is correct but only needed on the make-up to the boiler.I would think once added you should be good for quite a few years, a test may be needed every three or so.

Via a heat exchanger where each zone is isolated from the boiler's water, like I have with my solar domestic water, that has an exchanger in a separate tank. It gives up heat to the boiler water in the tank withOUT any common fluid exchange. The system has to be designed to isolate a particular zone, or zones when built.

 

[MikePA]

There's one area in my basement where the run of copper to feed the radiator farthest from the furnace is close to the top of the foundation wall.

How long is this run of copper pipe?

Is taking the ceiling tiles down enough to get through this winter?

Is it the only run that is close to the outside?

Does this run feed a radiator above it, i.e., can you relocate the entire run or does some of it have to remain near the outside wall?

Can these runs be isolated from the rest of the system to replace them so you don't have to shut off the entire system? (only pertinent if you're thinking of replacing pipe now)

Obviously, taking down the ceiling tiles is a temporary solution. The Heatline solution, while it can remain in place permanently, falls into the temporary category, IMO. Relocating the pipes, with or without anti-freeze, is a permanent solution.

Instead of guessing the pipe might freeze, do you have a thermometer you could place near the pipe to see how cold it gets? This will help determine whether you have to take immediate action.

 

[Quartz]

We have used a small (600 watt or less) electric space heater in an area of the basement that can get cold with a north wind where the water pipe to the barn passes through. It has worked quite well for us. There are some "radiator" types that do not have a fan if that is a concern. Warms up the concrete and the concrete block enough to avoid any disasters. There are no flammable materials nearby. One of those handheld spot thermometers help check for cold spots really well. Not sure if those ventless propane or natural gas heaters are safe enough, but that would be another option if they are safe to use.