Dealing with pipes freezing?

[Egon]

Leave the circulating pump on.

 

[RickB]

Leave the circulating pump on.

Not sure how your hot water heat system works, but that isn't a realistic option for my system. Would make for a hot house and cold boiler.

 

[Quartz]

In the old days, we put straw bales around the outside of the house foundation to keep the house warmer. it does make a difference.

 

[drizler]

You aint lyin about the straw or hay bales Quartz. Last year I was working on the barn in late April sweating my arse off in a tee shirt. We peeled back some hay an.d under it was a big block of ice. If it was me though I would just go get some "GOOD" read that as expensive heat tape and some pipe wrap and be done with it. The electric these use is absolutely meaningless in the grand scheme of things. I think a good one these days costs around $35 which is a lot better than boning up on your soldering skills when you bust a pipe.

 

[jymbee]

How long is this run of copper pipe?

About 15 feet. Also forgot to mention that there's a basement window at ground level just about in the middle-- another contributing factor for sure.

Is taking the ceiling tiles down enough to get through this winter?

If I keep an eye on things, yes. Again, it's only an issue with those bitter cold (< 10 below e.g.) nights. I can always just set the thermostat higher to make sure it kicks in but that usually means that the oil furnace will kick in given the wood add-on can't keep up with all 3 zones. The goal is to use the wood more and the oil less.

Is it the only run that is close to the outside?

There's a couple other spots but just pulling back one tile in those areas has prevented any freezing given they have less exposure being under a deck.

Does this run feed a radiator above it, i.e., can you relocate the entire run or does some of it have to remain near the outside wall?

It actually goes up from a register, then this run goes across an area above the kitchen (and under a ground level, basement window), then down to the end of the run to a short radiator in the bathroom.

Can these runs be isolated from the rest of the system to replace them so you don't have to shut off the entire system? (only pertinent if you're thinking of replacing pipe now.

Obviously, taking down the ceiling tiles is a temporary solution. The Heatline solution, while it can remain in place permanently, falls into the temporary category, IMO. Relocating the pipes, with or without anti-freeze, is a permanent solution.

Instead of guessing the pipe might freeze, do you have a thermometer you could place near the pipe to see how cold it gets? This will help determine whether you have to take immediate action.

I've gotten some great input from folks here with a variety of proposed solutions. Given there's so few nights that it's cold enough to be a concern, what I'll likely do is to attempt to get some additional insulation between the pipe and the outside wall. Some friends also suggested ceiling tile with an air register built in which would be more attractive than just pulling tiles back, as well as using a fan to force more room air into that space on those super cold nights.

Hopefully that will suffice, but if not I'll be looking at some of the other options discussed.

 

[PILOON]

Well it was my turn.
My dishwasher was making funny noises and when I turned on the sink faucet I had no water.
Pump line was frozen!
No panic, I simply cranked up the thermostat setting on my heated pipe tracing line and about 10 mins later the water was flowing.

When I built this house I foresaw possible waterline problems since it is sitting on solid bedrock and inserted a tracing line. My line is the earlier design in that it is a long element that is controlled by an external thermostat that needs to be located at an anticipated cold spot.
My water intake line is barely one foot down in some locations due to rock formations.
Most houses on the south side of our lake face similar water intake problems and being the local 'go to' guy I was fully aware and therefore anticipated possible problems.

Some folks had no choice but to run up to 300ft of tracing lines, one has internal heated water line, wrapped it with coils of foam that we normally use for composite flooring underlay. There was no other choice as the pump line ran down the face of a small cliff. A dynamited trench was not an option*. That solution has served well for some 25 years now.

*current environmental laws would never allow blasting and excavation within 10 meters of the lakeside.

 

[Paddy]

Jymbee,

The first thing I'd try is to insulate your wall to the exterior. Being in the ceiling, i'm guessing at the band board. They are tricky with air leaks, spray foam to seal and insulate. The next might be to add a return line to have a natural thermal loop, siphon. The return can just tee off near the end in the cold part and go back to the return at the heat source. Then insulate the line but not the return. So feed is warmer than return.

This is used for keeping tap hot water warm 24 hr a day so you don't have to wait so long.

 

[nybirdman]

Jymbee,

The first thing I'd try is to insulate your wall to the exterior. Being in the ceiling, i'm guessing at the band board. They are tricky with air leaks, spray foam to seal and insulate. The next might be to add a return line to have a natural thermal loop, siphon. The return can just tee off near the end in the cold part and go back to the return at the heat source. Then insulate the line but not the return. So feed is warmer than return.

This is used for keeping tap hot water warm 24 hr a day so you don't have to wait so long.

This would work on a two pipe system(with a three way valve) but not on a typical one pipe system used for residential heating system.You are talking about a recirculating line use mostly for commercial domestic water systems;that is a three pipe system.