Rear Hydraulic remotes?

[Dieselrider]

I have a 2013 Kubota L3800. We opted for the Loader and the backhoe. Both have been handy but, looking back I should have opted for the rear hydraulic outlets(at least one set). So, now I would like to add them. I have the one line that goes to the back for when the backhoe is installed. That is where the backhoe gets it's hydraulic fluid from. Here is a pic of it.

Is it possible to tie into that connector to add the rear remotes? If not, looking at the hydraulic block outlet on the tractor, do I need to T off there to add an outlet and valve to the back, or somewhere else?

Thank you for advice.

 

[J_J]

Can you use your 3pt now with BH installed?

Where is the BH return going to now?

The line going back to the BH is the supply/PB, so this would go to the new valve.

Some BH valves have two lines and others have three. IN, Return/OUT, and PB.

If you have three lines on the BH, you don't have to switch hoses once installed.

You can't tee pressure lines, however I can recommend a valve that will switch supply line to two circuits.

 

[s219]

Here are two of my threads on the factory rear remote kit that goes on the L3200/L3800, which will give you some info (even useful if you don't use the factory kit).

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...3200-rear-remote-install-pics.html?highlight=

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...863-l3200-3800-3301-3901-rear.html?highlight=

Right now, your backhoe takes power beyond flow from the front loader. From the backhoe, it then routes it to the block under the right footboard where it flows to the 3-pt and then back to the reservoir. (The rearmost fitting on that block is the one that delivers flow to the 3-pt).

The rear remotes just get inserted into the power beyond loop before of the backhoe. So the arrangement will be:

pump -> FEL -> rear remotes -> backhoe -> 3-pt -> tank

At least that's what the factory instructions describe. They had a few errors, so I'd want to verify by looking at the existing backhoe plumbing arrangement.

 

[Dieselrider]

Can you use your 3pt now with BH installed?

Where is the BH return going to now?

The line going back to the BH is the supply/PB, so this would go to the new valve.

Some BH valves have two lines and others have three. IN, Return/OUT, and PB.

If you have three lines on the BH, you don't have to switch hoses once installed.

You can't tee pressure lines, however I can recommend a valve that will switch supply line to two circuits.

Cannot use the three point with the backhoe on the tractor. The three point must be removed to mount the hoe.

When the hoe is off the return and feed lines that go to the hoe, must be plugged in to one another to complete the loop.
My BH has two lines.
What valve would you recommend? Thanks

 

[Dieselrider]

Here are two of my threads on the factory rear remote kit that goes on the L3200/L3800, which will give you some info (even useful if you don't use the factory kit).

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...3200-rear-remote-install-pics.html?highlight=

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...863-l3200-3800-3301-3901-rear.html?highlight=

Right now, your backhoe takes power beyond flow from the front loader. From the backhoe, it then routes it to the block under the right footboard where it flows to the 3-pt and then back to the reservoir. (The rearmost fitting on that block is the one that delivers flow to the 3-pt).

The rear remotes just get inserted into the power beyond loop before of the backhoe. So the arrangement will be:

pump -> FEL -> rear remotes -> backhoe -> 3-pt -> tank

At least that's what the factory instructions describe. They had a few errors, so I'd want to verify by looking at the existing backhoe plumbing arrangement.

Your set up looks really nice but, wow, that is one heck of a price to pay for what you got in return. Sure looks nice though.

 

[Dieselrider]

Another question I thought of. What is a detent outlet in comparison to a regular rear outlet? Thanks.

 

[J_J]

Cannot use the three point with the backhoe on the tractor. The three point must be removed to mount the hoe.

When the hoe is off the return and feed lines that go to the hoe, must be plugged in to one another to complete the loop.
My BH has two lines.
What valve would you recommend? Thanks

1/2" NPT 20 GPM PRINCE SELECTOR VALVE

The PB will feed this valve.

One output will connect to the BH.

The other output will connect to the 3pt.

Knob in uses one flow path say the BH, and knob out feeds the 3pt.

 

[Dieselrider]

1/2" NPT 20 GPM PRINCE SELECTOR VALVE

The PB will feed this valve.

One output will connect to the BH.

The other output will connect to the 3pt.

Knob in uses one flow path say the BH, and knob out feeds the 3pt.

Okay, please forgive me being dense. When you say one output would feed the three point, do you mean the rear axillary outlet I want to install? I already have hydraulic power to the three point when the backhoe is off the machine. I want to be able to use the three point and one rear remote for a hydraulic cylinder. Thanks.

 

[Kanook]

Maybe I'm missing something but.....If you want to use the 3pt you would have the BH removed, so couldn't you just plug the cylinder you intend to use (log splitter for eg) into the hoses your BH vacated and use the appropriate valve to run your cylinder that ensures operation of the 3pt???

 

[s219]

I wouldn't complicate it more than you have to -- just insert the rear remotes in the PB loop after the FEL and before the backhoe, as Kubota does with the factory kit. The remotes will work regardless of whether or not the backhoe or 3-pt is attached, and a selector valve isn't needed.

No need to go with a factory kit either -- the main benefit there is nice integration when two or three valves are desired. You can put together an aftermarket setup for a fraction of the cost, especially if you don't waste time making it look pretty. If needing just one valve, it would be easy to stash in several locations on an L.

Another question I thought of. What is a detent outlet in comparison to a regular rear outlet? Thanks.

There are float detent valves, that hold the remote circuit into float when you push the lever into detent, and regular detent valves, that hold the circuit open/flowing when the lever is pushed into detent. The float detent valve would be desirable for a hydraulic top link being used with a rear mower or grading implements, for when you want to let the top link float in/out to accommodate motion or uneven terrain. The standard detent valve would be desirable to run hydraulic motors or pumps, though you are limited by the tractor's flow rate, so it can't run just any old motor/pump implement.

 

[s219]

Maybe I'm missing something but.....If you want to use the 3pt you would have the BH removed, so couldn't you just plug the cylinder you intend to use (log splitter for eg) into the hoses your BH vacated and use the appropriate valve to run your cylinder that ensures operation of the 3pt???

I agree, that is another possibility and very easy to do. Could even be made semi-permanent.

 

[Dieselrider]

Maybe I'm missing something but.....If you want to use the 3pt you would have the BH removed, so couldn't you just plug the cylinder you intend to use (log splitter for eg) into the hoses your BH vacated and use the appropriate valve to run your cylinder that ensures operation of the 3pt???

Not looking to use a log splitter but a remote cylinder for raising and lowering agriculture equipment such as a trailer two bottom plow, disc plow, potato digger etc. so, that is part of my question. Since the lines are there already for the back hoe shouldn't I just need a valve that would allow me to use those lines for the remote when the BH is not hooked up? I just need to make sure that the three point would work as well as the remote if there would be a need for that.(for example: I borrowed a potato digger a few years ago that needed a cylinder and also the tongue connected to the draw bar running between the lower link arms of the three point hitch.) Not sure how often I would need both the three point and a remote at the same time but?

 

[Chilly807]

The link to my remote project is here.
It's worked well over the past several years, my only regret would be that it's a single remote. If I had my time back I'd use a modular stackable valve that would easily allow adding more remotes in the future. As I mentioned in the thread, space is the biggest challenge. The slickest remote install on an L3400 I've seen was done by Steve in MT as shown here.

Your L3800 is similar enough that either approach would work.

Sean

 

[J_J]

Dieselrider

I just need to make sure that the three point would work as well as the remote if there would be a need for that.

Not sure how often I would need both the three point and a remote at the same time but?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If you install a remote valve, it should have PB with adapter installed and then the 3pt will work as usual.

The remote will let you operate a cyl on a wagon or any cyl operated implement.

The line that now feeds the BH will connect to the remote IN port, using QD's.

 

[J_J]

Here are two of my threads on the factory rear remote kit that goes on the L3200/L3800, which will give you some info (even useful if you don't use the factory kit).

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...3200-rear-remote-install-pics.html?highlight=

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...863-l3200-3800-3301-3901-rear.html?highlight=

Right now, your backhoe takes power beyond flow from the front loader. From the backhoe, it then routes it to the block under the right footboard where it flows to the 3-pt and then back to the reservoir. (The rearmost fitting on that block is the one that delivers flow to the 3-pt).

The rear remotes just get inserted into the power beyond loop before of the backhoe. So the arrangement will be:

pump -> FEL -> rear remotes -> backhoe -> 3-pt -> tank

At least that's what the factory instructions describe. They had a few errors, so I'd want to verify by looking at the existing backhoe plumbing arrangement.

Using a two hose BH, the return goes to tank, so the 3pt will have no fluid. He can't use the 3pt with BH attached anyway.

Why is the return/OUT hose going to tank? Because most OUT port are only rated to 500 psi and connecting all the valves in series could cause some serious back pressure.

When he removes the BH, he connects the PB hose and the 3pt hoses together.

 

[J_J]

Maybe I'm missing something but.....If you want to use the 3pt you would have the BH removed, so couldn't you just plug the cylinder you intend to use (log splitter for eg) into the hoses your BH vacated and use the appropriate valve to run your cylinder that ensures operation of the 3pt???

A log splitter return /OUT port should go to tank, not back to the 3pt.

 

[Chilly807]

Something that's getting missed here is that the three point is always the last device in the circuit, regardless of whether there's a backhoe or not. You could plumb in a backhoe before the three point valve, or in place of it, but not after. That's because any fluid exhausted from the three point is dumped internally to the sump, at least in any tractor I've ever seen. Most tractors can't use the three point hitch with a backhoe attached because they occupy the same space, so using the pressure feed that would normally go to the three point control valve is a no brainer.

Ordinarily, a quick connect before the three point valve simply unplugs, the backhoe inlet hose connects to it. The backhoe return or exhaust plugs into the other side, sending flow to the three point valve. Since the lift arms are removed to make room for the 'hoe, the three point is useless. The three point valve simply dumps the hydraulic flow back to sump since it's not being used. When the hoe is removed, the lift arms are replaced, the pressure feed is plugged into the three point valve again and we're back to normal. Often the " normal "connection takes the form of a short length of hose with a male and female end to complete the circuit.

This is also why there's no down pressure on a modern three point hitch, other than safety reasons. The three point cylinder is single acting, relying on gravity and the weight of any implement to retract it.
If the backhoe had a hydraulic thumb, it would be controlled by an auxiliary valve in series with the main backhoe valves, usually after them and also requiring a power beyond fitting. It could be controlled by another remote valve separate from the actual backhoe system, but that would usually be a result of poor planning on the builders part.
Clear as mud, right

Sean

 

[J_J]

No, not clear as mud.

What you said is all well and good, except the fact about running the return line from a log splitter or BH back to the 3pt.

The 3pt is not necessarily the last valve in the hyd flow path.

Most return/OUT ports are limited to about 500 psi and if you put it in series with the other valves, you could damage the valve.

So most people run the return/OUT hose from BH or log splitter to tank and don't/can't use the 3 pt.

Some BH have a PB port and that valve can be connected in series to the 3pt and still have 3pt operation if so desired.

If your BH or log slitter is 3pt mounted, you need the 3pt, so there is an additional valve that will work with a two hose BH.

 

[Chilly807]

Most return/OUT ports are limited to about 500 psi and if you put it in series with the other valves, you could damage the valve.

Some BH have a PB port and that valve can be connected in series and still have 3pt operation.
.

Yes, my post was assuming the implement, whether it be a backhoe, wood splitter, whatever.. would have a valve with power beyond capability. To be entirely accurate, I should have specified that limitation.
If it doesn't support power beyond, I believe it needs to be the last valve in that circuit. Incidentally, according to hydraulictrivia.com, the European term for power beyond is "high pressure carry over"

 

[J_J]

That is true, but you normally see PB or PBY stamped on valves.