Comparison BX vs GC vs LS J-series SCUTs

[The Suburban Farmer]

PLUS, I've found that I can go a LOT faster on a ZT and still get a high quality cut. If I go too fast with the Deere 2320, I get a rough cut... plus, mowing in High isn't possible even on relatively modest hills and I have to use Low gear. That may not be the case with other tractors, but that's definitely true with my Deere.

I can also go sideways on my hills with a ZT, versus "up and down only" on the ZT as well, with no concerns about stability. Many of the slopes on my lawn are above the 20 degrees or so where I would be comfortable going side-ways on my tractor, even with ballast in the tires.

HOWEVER, I agree that IF I was mowing a football field in a race with a ZT, I could probably do it in the same amount of time -- but the cut quality wouldn't be as nice. Again, based on MY EXPERIENCE in using both machines head-to-head. However, we are all entitled to our own opinions and your individual mileage may vary.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone and can see both sides of the equation here -- but if someone is thinking of buying a SCUT/CUT based on the ability to add a MMM and have one machine to do everything, I think it's best to let new buyers know what those of us that have tried it have found out. There are material sacrifices in using a tractor as an every-day mower, and the price differential between buying a high-quality MMM and a ZT just isn't big enough to say that the MMM has a clear advantage.

 

[GManBart]

The XJ models are the exact same size as the J series. The J and XJ are CUT category tractors. They will be a lot larger than the SCUTs.

A lot larger than SCUTs?

I don't think anybody would argue that a Deere 1025R is anything other than a SCUT. It has a wheelbase of 57.1" and a weight of 1444lbs. A J2023H has a wheelbase of 59" and weight of 1,565lbs. I don't think 2" and 121 pounds is "a lot larger" in most anybody's book. The GC 1715 from the first post is nearly identical in size to the 1025R as well.

 

[TSO]

Island, the likely reason you don't see people mowing pastures with ZTR's is because ZTR's excel on smooth surfaces, and most pastures are rutted either by animals, machinery, or just nature in general. ZTR's don't have the ground clearance, or suspension, to handle overly rough terrain as well as a tractor.

I would assume that most people are concerned with cutting patterns; circular patterns don't hold much aesthetic appeal compared to proper stripes. Yes, that's subjective, but it's also evident by popularity.

If you have lots of free time, by all means, circle around or zig zag haphazardly around you property. But, for the masses, time and aesthetic appeal are probably important.

 

[Olympus]

Read my original post. What do you call two acres? A football field is three quarters of an acre. I doubt a ZTR would mow a football field twice as fast as a MMM. Faster, yes but not twice as fast unless you insist on straight back and forth mowing. Mowing pattern seems to be a big deal to some people and not to others. Fenway Park has a fancy ZTR groomed mowing pattern, my lawn is just cut and I don't care if I use a circle technique or back and forth but circle is faster when using traditional equipment.

2 acres is not a field, at least in my neck of the woods. My yard is twice that size and I don't consider that a field.

If you're just interested in cut grass, then it may not be much faster. But most commonly seen is straight mowed lines, down and right back beside where you just mowed. For that kind of mowing, a ZTR will certainly be much faster and more efficient.

 

[IslandTractor]

PLUS, I've found that I can go a LOT faster on a ZT and still get a high quality cut. If I go too fast with the Deere 2320, I get a rough cut... plus, mowing in High isn't possible even on relatively modest hills and I have to use Low gear. That may not be the case with other tractors, but that's definitely true with my Deere.

I can also go sideways on my hills with a ZT, versus "up and down only" on the ZT as well, with no concerns about stability. Many of the slopes on my lawn are above the 20 degrees or so where I would be comfortable going side-ways on my tractor, even with ballast in the tires.

HOWEVER, I agree that IF I was mowing a football field in a race with a ZT, I could probably do it in the same amount of time -- but the cut quality wouldn't be as nice. Again, based on MY EXPERIENCE in using both machines head-to-head. However, we are all entitled to our own opinions and your individual mileage may vary.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone and can see both sides of the equation here -- but if someone is thinking of buying a SCUT/CUT based on the ability to add a MMM and have one machine to do everything, I think it's best to let new buyers know what those of us that have tried it have found out. There are material sacrifices in using a tractor as an every-day mower, and the price differential between buying a high-quality MMM and a ZT just isn't big enough to say that the MMM has a clear advantage.

I agree with your points. I never said a MMM was better than a ZTR, just that there are more factors to consider than simply the notion that the ZTR is twice as fast. I mow the third acre around my house with an old Craftsman rider. Clearly any ZTR would be faster given the number of trees and shrubs I need to navigate but as I tend not to adhere to a strict back and forth pattern, I rarely need to reverse direction so for my purposes the Craftsman does the job. When it dies I'll have to reconsider what comes next especially if cheap ZTRs are reliable and not much more money than a lawn tractor.

 

[Olympus]

A lot larger than SCUTs?

I don't think anybody would argue that a Deere 1025R is anything other than a SCUT. It has a wheelbase of 57.1" and a weight of 1444lbs. A J2023H has a wheelbase of 59" and weight of 1,565lbs. I don't think 2" and 121 pounds is "a lot larger" in most anybody's book. The GC 1715 from the first post is nearly identical in size to the 1025R as well.

Thats only two aspects, width and weight. Park them next to the J or XJ and you'll see a bigger difference. There are a lot of other aspects to consider. When I was shopping, a lot of SCUTs had limited cat 1 hitches. Their hydro pumps are a lot smaller, their loaders have less lift, their tires and wheels are a lot smaller, they have less ground clearance, etc. You have to look at the whole picture rather than just picking out the aspects that support your comment.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

A lot larger than SCUTs?

I don't think anybody would argue that a Deere 1025R is anything other than a SCUT. It has a wheelbase of 57.1" and a weight of 1444lbs. A J2023H has a wheelbase of 59" and weight of 1,565lbs. I don't think 2" and 121 pounds is "a lot larger" in most anybody's book. The GC 1715 from the first post is nearly identical in size to the 1025R as well.

Bart, I agree with you. I own a BX23 and a BX2660, and I looked at and test drove a J2023H recently. The J2023H was a little bigger than the BX, but not a lot. Based on my observations, I would call the J2023H (and the XJ too) a small CUT, not a SCUT.

 

[GManBart]

Thats only two aspects, width and weight. Park them next to the J or XJ and you'll see a bigger difference. There are a lot of other aspects to consider. When I was shopping, a lot of SCUTs had limited cat 1 hitches. Their hydro pumps are a lot smaller, their loaders have less lift, their tires and wheels are a lot smaller, they have less ground clearance, etc. You have to look at the whole picture rather than just picking out the aspects that support your comment.

You're the one that brought up size ("a lot bigger"), not me. Most of the time when someone says something is bigger, we talk about length, wheelbase, width and weight....and those figures are all pretty similar. Even if you look at other dimensions not already mentioned nothing really changes. Add width and overall length...the 1025R is actually wider at 47.2" than the J2023 44.9". The Deere is 102.6" long with 3pt hitch to the J2023 103"....a wash. After all of that, it's still back to two machines that are within an inch or two here and there, and 100lbs difference give or take.

What really seems to trick people into thinking a J2023 is "bigger" is that the wheels and tires are larger, and that also accounts for much of the weight difference, if not all of it.

Yes, the J2023 is bigger than most SCUTs, but it's also much smaller than most CUTs. The funny thing is when someone tries to suggest that there is some line in the sand where a machine goes from being a SCUT to a CUT....but the actual dimensions shouldn't apply. If there's a line in the sand, it should be based on facts, not impressions or feelings.

Seriously, look at the range of SCUTs from the smallest to the biggest. They typically only vary a few hundred pounds and a few inches in that range. Then look at most CUTs and the range from smallest to largest is like 3,000lbs and a foot in length/width/wheelbase. To suggest that something like a J2023 at 1,500lbs is in the same class as a Mahindra 5035 that weighs 5,400lbs is pretty silly. Nah, let's lump that lil' ole' J in there with machines three times as heavy....after all, it's an inch longer, and a hundred pounds heavier than true SCUTs....:laughing:

 

[Olympus]

Since you seem eager to quote specs maybe you should dig a little further.

XJ2025H
Tractor weight: 1609 lbs
Loader weight w/o bucket 638 lbs
Total weight with loader and no bucket 2247 lbs

1025R
Tractor weight 1444 lbs
Loader weight w/o bucket 305 lbs
Total weight with loader and no bucket 1749 lbs

That's a difference of 498 lbs. "A lot" different than your estimate of 100lbs. The LS comes standard with a loader so you didn't factor that in the weight. Bare tractor to bare tractor is 165lbs difference, but the LS comes with the loader. So tractor and loader compared to tractor and loader and you see the difference get much larger. So your weight argument has been debunked and now you're only left with the length and width. So in "footprint", the 1025R and XJ2025H are very close, but that's all the similarities I see. I understand you don't agree with my use of the phrase "a lot", but numbers on a spec sheet don't show as much as parking a machine side by side to a SCUT, which I have with Kubota BX models. The differences are more pronounced in person than on a spec sheet.

And nobody is making the argument that the XJ is similar in size to other CUTs. Thats just a waste of breath. Nobody that I know was comparing the XJ to any other CUT size models.

 

[IslandTractor]

Just looking at photos of the XJ2025H, it looks almost exactly the size of the Kioti CK20 but is a bit lighter. (CK20 is about 2700lbs with loader). The CK20 is really equivalent to an entry level B series Kubota in physical size but is heavier than the Kubotas and has a stronger loader. The B series Kubotas, almost by definition a CUT, weigh about 1600-1700 lbs without loader and presumably about the same as the XJ with a loader. I haven't looked at the specs for the XJ2025H but Kioti CK20s models are clearly marketed as competitors for the B series Kubotas so I don't see why the XJ wouldn't be compared to small CUTs like the B series and CK.