Whats wrong with tier 4

Btown · Apr 18, 2015

Sysop said:
I think you're slightly off. I think everyone has read the same information as you. I don't get where "some people" are acting like Mahindra doesn't use any treatment to the exhaust (got a source?). I think the preference some show toward the Mahindra system has to do with part of what you mentioned which is the apparent cost difference. Hearing about the few DPFs that've had to be replaced at $3k each (even though most or all have been warranty items thus far) should be enough to make anyone cringe at the thought of owning one. I think the other thing that folk like about the Mahindra system is there is no regeneration cycles needed to clean it back up every few hours. I've personally came across nobody that thinks the Mahindra engines are just magically cleaner.

What I didn't post is that engines that have just a DOC do not remove as much particulate matter as a DPF system does. I have not seen how clean the exhaust is or has to be. It appears that a engine with just a DOC is quite dirtier than one with a DPF. A lot of machinery ( large off road and pick up trucks and large trucks) use both.

truckdiagnostics · Apr 18, 2015

Don't get things confused. Just because it has DOC doesn't mean it meets tier IV. There was some Tier III and interim IV running just DOC(don't quote me) If you go back to the link on how Mahindra is meeting tier IV with just a DOC and no DPF, there is a lot more going on there. Better control of the burning of the fuel with common rail being the key. I believe better control of combustion will get the DOC to last longer. My premise all along has been that DPF and a regen does not decrease as a whole the amount of emissions. it may change the size when it regens it is not decreasing it. Burning more in the engine gaining horse power out of it DECREASE THE FUEL USAGE for the same amount of work, that is decreasing the emissions. My premise has been based on purely total emissions.

DavesTractor · Apr 18, 2015

Recoveryhill said:
For those that just reject science, I have nothing to say. I suppose some folk continue to believe the earth is flat.

I think what I have quoted from you above is an entire subject of discussion in itself. Good science I respect, but there are many good honest knowledgeable scientist, guys and gals that are truly peers that do not agree on major issues. There are scientist with political agendas, scientists with atheistic agendas, etc. As much as they may wish to be neutral, our world view affects our opinions even when we are convinced we are taking a scientific approach.

As to clean air, I'm for it.

Btown · Apr 19, 2015

oldpilgrim said:
but enough to meet EPA regulations apparently.

For now

skyhook · Apr 19, 2015

For the amount a "hours" these little tractors are used, I think its unnecessary for them to have all this equipment, it's detrimental to sales...IMO.
Its like having dpf and regen's on lawn mowers and chainsaws.

houstonscott · Apr 19, 2015

skyhook said:
For the amount a "hours" these little tractors are used, I think its unnecessary for them to have all this equipment, it's detrimental to sales...IMO. Its like having dpf and regen's on lawn mowers and chainsaws.

That's coming and I'm not joking. It's planed. HS

skyhook · Apr 19, 2015

houstonscott said:
That's coming and I'm not joking. It's planed. HS

The sad part is, I believe you.

oldpilgrim · Apr 19, 2015

new 2 cycle stuff has already been outlawed.

California has regulations affecting lawnmowers.

ruffdog · Apr 19, 2015

The problem with tier 4 is... people will use contaminated DEF fluid.

Btown · Apr 19, 2015

ruffdog said:
The problem with tier 4 is... people will use contaminated DEF fluid.

I don't think people are going to do that. DEF is cheap. You can buy it almost everywhere. The problem will be how well built is the High Pressure Fuel Pumps (hpfp). A lot of on road diesel vehicles, cars and pickup trucks have all had problems at first. The pump is lubricated by diesel fuel. If you have contaminated fuel (gas or water) it will fail and cause contamination throughout the fuel system. Ford, Chevy, Dodge, BMW, Mercedes, VW have all had some problems. They appear to be changing pump designs so this does not happen. Hopefully these on tractors are of new design.