Whats wrong with tier 4

[joeu235]

I'm definitely not a rich person but I work for a multinational company. $30M is peanuts. My company's R&D budget is in the billions.

 

[Sysop]

It depends. The billions you speak of could be spread across many projects. Their $30M investment was a single project (what they're calling mCRD), and in the end, that $30M investment led to a development that is being applied to fewer engine models than are being taken out of service.

Rather than each tractor having an engine developed specifically for it (some engines were used in multiple models with different power ratings previously, but not to the extent of now), they now have multiple models from multiple series ranging from 30hp up to 50hp all using the same engine.

I do understand all the positives that come from doing such things. Logistically, financially, and mechanically I understand that everything they did improves the lineup, but having applied their development to fewer engines thusfar also shows that $30M didn't really buy a whole lot beyond the R&D. They still have major investments ahead applying the developments to more engines more specific to the tractors they're fitting them in.

Between what their partners sunk into it and what they still have to do, I don't think the $30M is fully accurate. It was just a dumbed down press release after all.

 

[McREBEL]

Obviously the biggest problem with Tier IV is the solution some manufacturers have chosen. As I say often where I work, "You see what kind of problems solutions cause".

DPF is going away and they are getting it figured out.

If this is true, and I suspect it is, then the resale value of these DPF tractors, that might only be produced for a few years, will not be so good whether the fear of them is truly warranted or not. The perception they are bad will probably be enough to hurt resale/trade value. That alone would be enough to make me avoid one. I can imagine the advice being given here some years down the road when someone asks for advice purchasing a used tractor..."Avoid this or that model, it has a DPF".

It seems like I have read on here recently that LS is about to start building their own engines that do not use DPF. Not sure if that is true or not.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

I would not let the resale of a tractor equipped with DPF worry me. I believe if a particular engine is having issues with the DPF or the DPF is to costly to repair, American ingenuity will come up with a way to delete it. They are doing it left and right in the over the road trucking and light truck. And as far as I know it is going unchecked, most inspections are visual they reflash the ecm and core out the DPF. One of two things are going to happen. The larger trucking companies which have to leave the DPF on and functioning are not going to be able to compete with the smaller companies from a pricing perspective, and the larger companies are going to throw the smaller ones under the bus. The the EPA is going to have a choice say we messed up and it is ok to take the DPF off, or they are going to have to go after the little guy. Now if you go back and read what I have been saying in this thread, you should be doing some real head scratching!

 

[dave1949]

I would not let the resale of a tractor equipped with DPF worry me. I believe if a particular engine is having issues with the DPF or the DPF is to costly to repair, American ingenuity will come up with a way to delete it. They are doing it left and right in the over the road trucking and light truck. And as far as I know it is going unchecked, most inspections are visual they reflash the ecm and core out the DPF. One of two things are going to happen. The larger trucking companies which have to leave the DPF on and functioning are not going to be able to compete with the smaller companies from a pricing perspective, and the larger companies are going to throw the smaller ones under the bus. The the EPA is going to have a choice say we messed up and it is ok to take the DPF off, or they are going to have to go after the little guy. Now if you go back and read what I have been saying in this thread, you should be doing some real head scratching!

I'm confused a bit by "... EPA is going to have a choice say we messed up and it is ok to take the DPF off ...".

My understanding is that the EPA set a standard to meet but didn't require any particular engineering solutions to achieve that standard. If that is true, then the EPA is not going to say they messed up for someone else's design and implementation.

 

[houstonscott]

I'm confused a bit by "... EPA is going to have a choice say we messed up and it is ok to take the DPF off ...". My understanding is that the EPA set a standard to meet but didn't require any particular engineering solutions to achieve that standard. If that is true, then the EPA is not going to say they messed up for someone else's design and implementation.

Maybe the next president will decide we just don't have the resources to enforce EPA regulations and will tell tractor manufactures they don't have to comply with EPA law, and the AG will ignore US law. HS

 

[Utopia Texas]

Maybe the next president will decide we just don't have the resources to enforce EPA regulations and will tell tractor manufactures they don't have to comply with EPA law, and the AG will ignore US law. HS

Scott, I want some of what ever you are smoking!

 

[mx1alex]

Scott, I want some of what ever you are smoking!

diesel fumes

 

[DavesTractor]

diesel fumes

Now that's funny whether you are a flaming liberal or the staunchest libertarian.

 

[Utopia Texas]

diesel fumes

Can't comply.
I am using Tier 4B and as you know the exhaust comes out cleaner than the intake air!
Everything I read on the Internet is true......