A safer alternative to Roundup

[Walkin Horse]

I went to talk to a lady that wants me to reseed her pastures. She has moved her horses to my place and doesn't want to take care of horses anymore. Her meadows as she called them are beat up pretty bad. Nothing but weeds left after 2 years of keeping horses on them.

I don't do this for a living but have had good success at my place establishing pasture. The trick is to keep them off of it in the winter and whenever gets wet. I have searched on here about Roundup and there doesn't seem to be much on TBN about NOT using Roundup.

When I suggested we burn it off this summer before I start planting she freaked. Roundup causes cancer in lab rats in Cal. No no no that is nasty stuff. She sent me an article about how bad it is. But it also said that without roundup America would starve to death.

So what is a better substitute to use. My research shows vinegar and Dawn soap. But some say this is very limited to killing anything. There is about 8 acres to do. Anybody have any suggestions?

 

[KennyG]

You won't find anything better than Roundup. Right now there is a flurry of anti-Roundup publicity, based on questionable science. In the right concentration, virtually any substance, natural or man-made has health impacts.

The flap over Roundup is because it's being re-certified and the eco-movement has a basic strategy of trying to ban or cast doubt on any and all chemicals. Roundup has been tested and evaluated for years and found to be safe when used as directed. It's great advantage is that it's not persistent and breaks down. Use, reseed the pasture and by the time you can put animals back on it, the Roundup will be long gone.

If you don't want to use Roundup, your only real option is to go old school. Plow it, disk it, let is set until the weeds sprout and then plow and disk again and again. Then plant the grass and hope. For 8 acres, there is no viable "natural" substance you can use.

 

[Creamer]

I am not sure why some people are so scared of Roundup. It is one of the safest chemicals made. You don't really want to pour it in your eyes or drink it but other than that it is not dangerous to work with.

Here is a "fact sheet" put out by Cornell University on it. Glyphosate This report also cites the feed rate to rats for glycophosphate to be carcinogenic - I would think if you fed any animal almost purely one chemical there would be adverse reactions.

The biggest thing for me is that it breaks down very quickly. This paper says a half life of 1-174 days in soil but I know some products state that in sunlight it is 90% broken down in 3 days. The other factor is that it has a very low leach out rate in soil. To me these are a good things. I know of nothing better.

Keep in mind that the "license" is up for renewal and therefore there is a lot of hype by certain anti-chemical types. I know on my brother's farm where I grew up since they went no-till and started using Roundup versus a lot of other herbicides such as 2,4-D there is a lot more evidence of natural soil organism activity. It is visible to the naked eye if you know what you are looking for. That also makes me a believer.

 

[smstonypoint]

So what is a better substitute to use. My research shows vinegar and Dawn soap. But some say this is very limited to killing anything. There is about 8 acres to do. Anybody have any suggestions?

Is the lady against all herbicides or just glyphosate? If the weeds are mainly broadleaf, you could try Grazon or other broadleaf herbicides.

Stev

 

[dmccarty]

Vinegar in high concentrations is not benign and it can mess up your soil.

As soon as I get time and it stops raining, I will be spraying Roundup around the house. I won't use vinegar.

Later,
Dan

 

[davesl708]

I agree with the others above. Nothing was said about Roundup for decades. Now that the recertification is due all the BS comes out. Part by those who would ban everything except what they want and the competition to Roundup. Roundup has the lion's share of the market so competitors need to take them down.

If there were a better product you would be seeing the adds everywhere.

 

[KiotiKowboy]

I am not sure why some people are so scared of Roundup. It is one of the safest chemicals made. You don't really want to pour it in your eyes or drink it but other than that it is not dangerous to work with.

Agreed - but - that type of thinking didn't help save DDT. The world has paid a massive price for that ban.

 

[KiotiKowboy]

Anybody have any suggestions?

Have you considered a controlled burn?

 

[KennyG]

Agreed - but - that type of thinking didn't help save DDT. The world has paid a massive price for that ban.

What goes around comes around. It was never completely banned. Now the World Health Organization recommends INDOOR spraying with DDT in Malaria areas. Granted the environmental groups over hyped this but there was a serious problem with over application of DDT in agriculture. I think this was largely a result of the very low cost of DDT combined with minimal training of users. If DDT was renamed, I think it would be widely used.

 

[Trillium Farm]

Kenny G gave you the answer, work the soil over and plant very thick clover then plow under and restart. There's no other way.
I've used roundup because it kills the plant from the roots out, but doesn't stay in the soil whereas all the other weedkillers poison the soil around the plant so that it cannot thrive and dies. Perhaps if you can explain this way to the lady she may be more amenable to using it. She'll have to be taught how to rotate grazing as horses are selective grazers and if not done the pasture quickly becomes "horse sick" and we''re back to square one.