John Deere Buyers - What are your thoughts on this?

[swines]

As a second point of reference - you don't own the operating system software or Windows Office software on your computer. The money you paid for the software grants you a license to use that software on a specific machine.

So, in effect, and using the logic in the Wired article - if you have a PC and run Windows, Microsoft "Owns your computer" because you can't use it without the activated Microsoft license.

Also, even though you paid for the software - you don't own it.

Don't believe it? From the first paragraph in the Microsoft Licensing Agreement - it clearly states you don't own the software:

We do not sell our software or your copy of it – we only license it. Under our license we grant you the right to install and run that one copy on one computer (the licensed computer) for use by one person at a time, but only if you comply with all the terms of this agreement. Our software license is permanently assigned to the licensed computer.

 

[fieldman12]

I have worked on computers,networks,servers, and switches for nearly 20 years now. I see what John Deere is saying but in my opinion if Deere and other manufactures own the Computer hardware than in my opinion they should be providing the updates as needed at least for say10 or twenty years along with a tech to install the updates. The issue is most users are really not that great about fixing stuff on a home computer let alone a tractor that moves with a computer installed. Tractors will have to install there own updates but that can cause issues if it is not tested with your model and attached equipment (issues can and will pop up). At some point that software will be as Microsoft calls it at (end of life) and there will be no more updates. The tractor alone could go on without updates but when you add attachments with GPS and so on Im sure you would be forced at some point into buying another computer system for your tractor if they make one then ( or worse a new tractor that is compatible with your new corn planter lol. This is a stretch but this is what we could see in the future. The computers on equipment is getting smarter and smarter.

 

[ultrarunner]

In time the companies that thrive will improve and continue support... others may fold.

 

[dwilliams35]

I'll just have to hold on to my non-computer JD's: at some point they need to recognize their market: cars are over-computerized as a result of government regulation in large part: emissions, safety, etc... Tractors don't always need electronics, I can get all the GPS I need on my Ipad, and the disc I'm pulling isn't dependent on sensors to operate properly. Is there a place for it? Absolutely, but that's so far out of the scope of what most of their customers really need. (by numbers of units, not by sales revenue) and there's a whole lot that can be done to address emissions regulations, etc. without making the unit unserviceable.

 

[MORRISONSTEEL]

I'll just have to hold on to my non-computer JD's: at some point they need to recognize their market: cars are over-computerized as a result of government regulation in large part: emissions, safety, etc... Tractors don't always need electronics, I can get all the GPS I need on my Ipad, and the disc I'm pulling isn't dependent on sensors to operate properly. Is there a place for it? Absolutely, but that's so far out of the scope of what most of their customers really need. (by numbers of units, not by sales revenue) and there's a whole lot that can be done to address emissions regulations, etc. without making the unit unserviceable.

I think the oems (all colors) actually are recognizing the market. The demand for this technology is staggeringly huge, and I can't see what makes any oem bad(greedy) if they follow the $, I think that is pretty much what the stockholders want. The small family farm continues to face different struggles keeping up in a big business farming world as they have for many years and will have to continue to think outside the box to compete. I think the gent referenced in the article was maybe the victim of poor dealer support, it unfortunate, but can certainly happen. IMAO

 

[Wagtail]

This is, what, the 3rd or 4th article on this subject... and ALL of them are from 'WIRED'... and ALL of them specifically target John Deere. 'WIRED' is either manufacturing the outrage (journalism today) or they've got "a bug up their arse".

All manufacturers of the larger models of Ag Tractors are going computer controlled/fly-by-wire technology. It's intellectual property that they don't want you mucking around with as it's with the 'control system'. You can still perform basic maintenance & mechanical repair.

Electronics repair today is 'card replacement'. I know this as I witnessed the slow change from repair-by-fixing (soldering a new component onto a circuit card) to repair-by-replacement of the entire card during my 40+ years as an Electronics Technician in the Navy. Even when I could see what the problem was (IE: a resister had let the 'magic smoke' out of it ), I was no longer permitted to replace/repair it as I had originally been trained to do.

Time (and technology) marches on...

 

[Tractornewb]

Bunch of hogwash.

Under copyright law, which includes movies, TV shows, and software, you are allowed to make one copy of the software, DVD, tape (whatever), for personal use, because you own it. You can wipe your butt with the copy, drop it in acid, do whatever you want with it, as long as you don't give it to somebody else.

So, if tractor manufacturers are saying that you cannot tinker with the code, that is true for the original program, but you are allowed to make a copy, and do whatever you want with it, even if it doesn't run your tractor afterwards.

But, the real issue here is that a DVD movie, or a book, under copyright law, doesn't do anything essential, like run an engine. If you're paying for that engine, you're also paying for the software that is required to run that engine. What they're claiming is that you're paying for the hardware, but are only paying for a license to use the software, which is totally ridiculous. Then they want you to not be able to fix your own machine, and pay them to fix stuff for you, at $150/hour labor cost.

Good luck with that. The customer will pick whatever service is best for the customer, not the the manufacturer.

 

[Wagtail]

Bunch of hogwash.

But, the real issue here is that a DVD movie, or a book, under copyright law, doesn't do anything essential, like run an engine. If you're paying for that engine, you're also paying for the software that is required to run that engine. What they're claiming is that you're paying for the hardware, but are only paying for a license to use the software, which is totally ridiculous. Then they want you to not be able to fix your own machine, and pay them to fix stuff for you, at $150/hour labor cost.

Good luck with that. The customer will pick whatever service is best for the customer, not the the manufacturer.

Apples & oranges, Mate. I'm sure that an OEM would be willing to sell you the diagnostic 'machine' + associated software [with future software upgrades] if you wanted to spend your spare cash on it. Instead, repair facilities [OEM service dept. and private servicing mechanics] invest in the new equipment and recoup the expense by charging you.

I'm sure that if you think back to when electronics technology started to 'trickle down' to the automotive industry, what, 20+ years ago? Your local mechanic needed to invest in diagnostic equipment or else they wouldn't be able to earn a living. And I'm sure that a very similar complaint was voiced then.

As I stated above, you'll still be able to perform your own mechanical maintenance & fluid changes. High-end machines that now are controlled by fly-by-wire technology and integrated control systems will require specialised programmes to adjust the software that they have developed (intellectual property that they, the OEM, have invested many $s in).

If you want to continue mucking-about/tweaking your own tractor in the future, I suggest hanging out in the Vintage Tractor threads.

 

[forestcreature1]

Just an observation for the herd - you can always farm with mules if you don't like the technology.
[why yes, I do own/use a complete compliment of hand planes and gouges & then again, I mow with a 2014 3r w/cab & ac]

 

[Wagtail]

The discussion, from my observation, has concentrated on the local average owner being able to modify/tinker with the computer control system of their tractor/vehicle in their own workshop.

The other side of the 'coin' is international access to the code/programme. JD and the other OEMs have developed, tested and marketed this operating system at great expense... which can be 'pinched' by unscrupulous foreign manufacturers, adjusted for their product, and then sold back to the world market (including the U.S.). This saves them heaps of $s.

I am not having a 'go' at reputable foreign-made 'colours', but there are many 'eastern' countries who routinely do this. Without some sort of 'intellectual' protection, there would be a disincentive to develop new innovations.