Horizontal Studs???!!!!

[TJP89]

OK, since rain delayed work on my leanto project, I decided to do the easy indoor task of identifying where the studs are in the polebarn wall. I plan to anchor a ledger board to the barn wall, and use it and joist hangers to secure the leanto roof rafters to the barn wall. As my stud detector is useless through metal and the wood paneling that's on the inside, I resorted to drilling holes in the wall. Starting at a window, I drilled and measured, finding 2 studs (so I thought) Then...nothing. I put holes all over a 5ft section of wall with no studs!!! WTH??? Up to the attic I go, wait a sec, no stud tops, just the top board on the wall. Inspiration strikes! I drill at the same HORIZONTAL level as my first stud I found, directly above a hole where there is no hole. Stud found. Huh? Drill some more, its a horizontal stud!!!! :confused3::confused2::confused2:

Soooo....is that even possible? Am I missing something? I've dug all over the internet and found nothing. Figured here would be as good a place to ask as any. Anybody have any ideas on what's going on? I'm back out to investigate some more.

 

[paulharvey]

They aren't studs, they are purlions, and they run horizontal between the poles to screw metal or plywood too.

 

[RickB]

They aren't studs, they are purlions, and they run horizontal between the poles to screw metal or plywood too.

Purlins.

 

[DFB]

Girts...

 

[TJP89]

Are you guys telling me that I have horizontal wood beams running between metal poles holding up my polebarn? Even though it has an A framed wooden roof? Can somebody post a picture of this, because I really can't picture this holding up the building.

 

[joeyd]

Here's a couple of pics from when my pole barn was being built.

 

[Hill Farmer]

 

[RickB]

Now you know why it is called a "pole barn".

 

[s219]

Yep, purlins or "girts" as they are better called when on a wall. Only there to hold the siding on and keep the walls straight. All roof loads transmit down to the wall headers and then the poles and their footings. No studs required.

 

[TJP89]

Yes, I do see why they're called polebarns, not small houses. I searched the internet with new better search terms and got some good material. I drilled some more holes (yes, one wall of the barn is filled with holes now) and discovered that the girts are 22 inches apart horizontally. The bad new is I need to put that ledger board right in between where the girts are placed, so I'm working on that now. Thanks for enlightening me and pointing me in the right direction:thumbsup:

 

[s219]

Yes, I do see why they're called polebarns, not small houses. I searched the internet with new better search terms and got some good material. I drilled some more holes (yes, one wall of the barn is filled with holes now) and discovered that the girts are 22 inches apart horizontally. The bad new is I need to put that ledger board right in between where the girts are placed, so I'm working on that now. Thanks for enlightening me and pointing me in the right direction:thumbsup:

For a ledger, really you will want to tie it into the poles themselves, so try to locate them. If snow loads are an issue, might want to run some numbers to make sure the pole footings can handle the extra load, but I suspect they will be OK.

 

[s219]

Yes, I do see why they're called polebarns, not small houses. I searched the internet with new better search terms and got some good material. I drilled some more holes (yes, one wall of the barn is filled with holes now) and discovered that the girts are 22 inches apart horizontally. The bad new is I need to put that ledger board right in between where the girts are placed, so I'm working on that now. Thanks for enlightening me and pointing me in the right direction:thumbsup:

For a ledger, really you will want to tie it into the poles themselves, so try to locate them. If snow loads are an issue, might want to run some numbers to make sure the pole footings can handle the extra load, but I suspect they will be OK.

 

[EddieWalker]

The ledger board is actually more of a header since it is spanning the distance of the posts. It has to be strong enough to support the load of the roof over the span. How far apart are the posts? Attaching the ledger board requires bolts at the very minimum, but in some parts of the country, that's not allowed and you need to have metal brackets or support under the ends of the ledger board. You might also consider installing new posts and installing the ledger board to the top of the new posts. Not knowing your building, this is something I've done several times.

Eddie

 

[LD1]

I would install new posts.

Odds are, there is nothing between the girts along the posts. Girts are nailed to the outside of the post (every 22" in your case) then siding over it. So there will be a 1-1/2" gap between the siding and the posts. No way to properly tighten a header bolt without crushing in the siding/sheathing and get proper strength without removing the side wall of the building. For time/effort/material involved, I think you will be ahead setting new posts

 

[TJP89]

I would install new posts.

Yes, I'm doing something along those lines. I plan to tie the ledger board into whatever vertical post are there (a few, as there is a window, and garage door, and the end, maybe one in the middle) Then, frame out basically a new wall on the exterior with 2 by 4s underneath the ledger board. I'll put this into the concrete slab, and it will be load bearing of the ledger board, as well as tied into the horizontal girts, but will mostly support its own weight. The other option is reframing the wall itself, but I have all kinds of shelving and the inside is sheathed with a wood paneling, so it'd be a real PIA to do that.

I assume that the vertical studs next to the window and door would go all the up and down, correct? Also, is there a standard distance between vertical posts in the wall, or is it just random? It's a 30 by 60 building BTW.

 

[EddieWalker]

Odds are they just cut two boards to create something to attach the window to on the purlins. I would be surprised if you have true jack and king studs on either side of the window. You have to remember that the metal siding is part of the structure that supports the purlins, so it's not common or expected to frame a window up like you would in a house.

If you are going to stick frame another wall to support the roof you are adding, why are you going to use a ledger board? Why not just secure the new wall to the posts and purlins where you can, and then rest the rafters to the new roof on top of the top plates?

Eddie

 

[TJP89]

Odds are they just cut two boards to create something to attach the window to on the purlins. I would be surprised if you have true jack and king studs on either side of the window. You have to remember that the metal siding is part of the structure that supports the purlins, so it's not common or expected to frame a window up like you would in a house.

If you are going to stick frame another wall to support the roof you are adding, why are you going to use a ledger board? Why not just secure the new wall to the posts and purlins where you can, and then rest the rafters to the new roof on top of the top plates?

Eddie

It's a downward slanting roof, I need something solid to put the rafters into. I'm still thinking through this. It's a leanto, there is downward force, but also outward force exerted by the roof, I can support the downward pull, but what about the outward pull? I'm still only into a few real studs and mostly girts. What if I extended the new wall up, and just bolted the ledgerboard into it, with new wall only attached to the girts, but anchored into the concrete on the bottom? Or am I better off just opening up the inside of the polebarn wall and putting in new studs every 2ft?

 

[EddieWalker]

For both downward and upward pull, use metal straps on each rafter. If given the option, it is always best to have your load resting on top of support instead of having to support it with a bracket.

Eddie