Poll. Subaru vs Kohler

[Frank Sorbello]

If Power-Trac offered a Kohler engine along with their Robin Subaru, what motor would you choose?

 

[marrt]

I've owned both in a 425. Without a doubt...Kohler. In my experience, it's a far superior engine. Why? Starts when it's cold, doesn't quit when it's hot, parts are easy to get, mechanics are easy to find, more accessories (e.g., custom spin down air filter for dusty conditions), proven track record, etc....

 

[Sawyer Rob]

What Kohler??? Many of todays Kohlers are made in China and no better than the other brand, china made motors...

I'd take the Subaru Robin...

SR

 

[jfischer]

Very True, I used to love the old Kohlers, but they are SURE not what they used to be. Seems that most all of the newer motors are about the same anymore.

I had an old Onan I loved. but parts for them have gone nuts anymore.

 

[Marks481]

What if Power-Trac offered the Robin 28FI engine in place of the Robin 25? How much extra would you pay for that feature?

Never played around with the Kohlers, but my Robin has been (mostly) trouble free.

 

[Frank Sorbello]

That option is currently available for $500 more. However I don't believe Power Trac does everything that the guys on this forum who replaced their 25hp motors with the 28hp FI to protect it from the heat build up in the tub.

 

[Marks481]

That is a pretty reasonable price for the upgrade. Would be nice if they would switch to a stock Robin exhaust header/manifold.

 

[Trillium Farm]

Me too ! Today's kohler aren't what they used to be

 

[MossRoad]

First, for those of you chiming in that don't own a Power Trac, you aren't aware of the conditions these things are operating in....

COLD: They have to turn over three hydraulic pumps while trying to start. Cold hydraulic fluid is like glue.

HOT: For some reason the Subarus are prone to heat problems (almost certainly a design problem with the Power Trac engine compartment and exhaust system).

Since I have no experience with the Subaru, and only can go by what I've read here in the Power Trac forum, I can't compare them from personal experience.

As I've said before, my Kohler starts unassisted down to about 5F. For me, starting fluid is required after that. I've started it as low as -10F. I've heard of no one with a Subaru being able to start one at those temps unassisted. By unassisted, I mean warm garage, engine heaters, starting fluid, etc...

I've also run mine for hours during long summer days in the high 90's with no problems.

So, my Kohler has two pumps behind the engine, one pump in front of the engine, a Kohler factory exhaust exiting directly out the rear and lots of room in the engine compartment. It has a strong starter and I run Mobil1 5w30 in the engine and at each hydraulic filter change I add a quart of Mobil1 5w30 and now 5w40.

So if I had to do it over again, knowing what I know about my Kohler and reading what I've read about the Subaru's, I would not purchase a new Power Trac because of the cold starting issues and hot running issues expressed by Subaru powered PT's in this forum. I'd look for a used one with a Kohler, or re-power a used one with a Kohler.

BTW, Kohler Command Pro's are made in Wisconsin, not China.

Kohler Excels at Manufacturing Small Gas Engines | 2014-06-03 | Assembly Magazine

 

[Frank Sorbello]

Moss, Are you the only one on this Power Trac forum with a Kohler? Everything you just stated I completely agree with. I am ready to purchase a new 425, however my experience with my 422's Subaru. I just can't allow myself to pull the trigger because I know I will regret it. I call Power Trac every so many months asking if they can put a Kohler in it and they say they can't because they aren't Kohler dealers.

 

[MossRoad]

No, there's a few other Kohler's out there, but most are Subaru/Robin

 

[MossRoad]

This is my 2001 model year PT425.
Note the variable volume pump is in front of the engine under the gas tank, the FEL and AUXPTO pumps are behind it, hydraulic filter in right front corner, the fuel tank is under the hood and the battery is under the muffler on the right rear side. Note the factory Kohler muffler exhausting out the rear. ZERO heat problems.

--

Below is Pajoube's 2003 (I believe) model year PT425. Also a Kohler.

Note that his has the engine rotated 180 degrees from mine and is located completely to the rear of the tub, all of the hydraulic pumps are in front of it, the fuel tank is built into the rear of the lid, the battery is raised above the hydraulic pumps and the hydraulic filter is on a riser for easier access. Note the muffler (Power Trac fabricated, I believer) location and the muffler wrap.

Can someone post some pictures of later model years with Subaru's for comparison?

 

[jfischer]

If you are going to let the fact that the PT425 or others have the Subaru in them, and are waiting for the company to put another engine in it, you might be waiting a long time.
I Can't say I am a fan of the Subaru, but I bought mine back in March and it started fine down to 30 degrees. (I will put a heat pad on it before this Winter) but I looked at many other machines, and you get what you pay for, and don't think there is anything in their price range that comes close.
To this point I have had no issues with the vapor lock, or other problems many seem to have. True, I don't have but 60 hours at this point, but so far I am happy with the machine.
True, I don't mow with it, but that is not why I bought the machine. Too many cheap mowers out there for grass only, and I use a zero turn on my lawn, of which I decreased my mowing time by about 2/3 the time over a 50" John Deere. It just goes faster, will get closer to things, and does a over all better cut.
The starting problems in the cold could be due to the small starters, or it not getting enough amperage. I know that an Onan I had in a John Deere would have problems also, but there was a relay kit you put on them and never had these problems.
To me the design of the engine down in an enclosed tub on three sides is going to be hard for any engine to keep the coolest, and I have done the fan, header, exhaust and other mods, and so far am pretty happy with the machine.
Just my two cents on this.

Moss, Are you the only one on this Power Trac forum with a Kohler? Everything you just stated I completely agree with. I am ready to purchase a new 425, however my experience with my 422's Subaru. I just can't allow myself to pull the trigger because I know I will regret it. I call Power Trac every so many months asking if they can put a Kohler in it and they say they can't because they aren't Kohler dealers.

 

[Barryh]

I had the Robin 18 hp in my PT-180 in 2005 but now, I have the same Kohler setup that Moss has although his is ridiculously cleaner at the moment. :laughing:

When I bought the 180 the first thing I noticed was a bad vibration at certain RPM's which I attributed to possible debris in the bottom of the the gas tank and the fact that it needed a break in period.. I did everything possible to get rid of the vibration.

At the 650 hr mark when I sold it, it still had the same bad vibration and ran hot. Around the 400 + hour mark I had to replace leaking valve cover gaskets. That said, it started fine down to 20 degree's in my unheated garage.. And the machine is still running strong to this day and the guy that owns it still uses and loves the machine...

My 97 -1425 has the same engine / setup as MR's and now has 638 hours on the machine. The previous owner said he has never had a problems with it. But I can't attest to that since I just bought it. Hopefully it will never give me any problems. What immediately stood out to me about the engine when I first test drove it, was how easy it started and how smooth and strong it ran.

I see no oil leaks no smoke and it makes no noises.. Time will tell how well it holds up and starts this winter. I have a red temperature light on mine that will come on if it gets to hot. For now It's running regular 10 W 30.

I am pondering on changing over to synthetic but kind of hesitate since it has 600 + hours on it and nothing leaks. Thinking maybe I should just stay with the Dino.

In retrospect I was planning on buying a new 422 then work hard at finding a better cooling solution. I think Robin is a decent engine and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one. But given a choice I would definitely go with a Kohler and never look back.

I have the single cylinder Kohlers on my old Cub and John Deere garden tractors. They do not smoke and run surprisingly well for being 40 + years old.

 

[KMA]

Kawasaki... it isn't even close anymore IMHO.

 

[jeff9366]

The new Kubota Zero Turn mowers have Kawasaki engines. Tectonic shift for Kubota.

 

[MossRoad]

I had the Robin 18 hp in my PT-180 in 2005 but now, I have the same Kohler setup that Moss has although his is ridiculously cleaner at the moment. :laughing:

Uh.... that's a 14 year old picture when it was brand new. Its filthy now. :thumbsup:

 

[Barryh]

Just thought you were meticulous about maintenance.. Yeah.. I was wondering about that..

 

[MossRoad]

Just thought you were meticulous about maintenance.. Yeah.. I was wondering about that..

Nope. I try to keep it in good working order, but not show-quality condition. Its a mess right now. Footwells and tub full of leaves and grass. Lots of surface rust behind the wheels, etc... Pool pump died. Washing machine died. Suburban is limping. Air conditioning limping. Kid going to grad school. 2nd kid goes to Vet school in a year. Changed jobs recently. Wife changed jobs recently. Life keeps throwing em at us and we keep swinging! But super clean tractor is low on the to-do list right now! :laughing:

But, we are debt free, have a warm home (even in summer!), good roof, good food and good friends and neighbors.... life could suck a whole lot more if we wanted it to!

 

[Patric Sr]

:thumbsup:MossRoad I am with you I have a 2425 no problems with my kohler I am planning on a heating element later this summer for next winter I will post pictures my fuel tank and Hyd. tank are in the front.