Running 500 feet of underground wire.

   / Running 500 feet of underground wire. #31  
Another interesting issue is that a breeder told me that a bigger pond actually has a greater risk of becoming too warm, because the wind can set up surface currents and circulate the water from down below to up above. And with rainbow trout in the lake, of course this is a worrisome issue.

You will probably get a thermocline set up through the summer which if not penetrated by something (like rising air bubbles) can be quite dense.

I am going to have to get my scuba gear on and do a bit of a survey of the bottom, as this little lake is quite deep.

TBN works better with pictures :)
 
   / Running 500 feet of underground wire. #32  
Another interesting issue is that a breeder told me that a bigger pond actually has a greater risk of becoming too warm, because the wind can set up surface currents and circulate the water from down below to up above. And with rainbow trout in the lake, of course this is a worrisome issue.

Check,
Look at the link I sent earlier in the post for a windmill powered aerator. That site had some guidelines for acreage, size, depth of air diffuser etc. According to that site, they recommended placing the diffusers at a location that is 1/2 the total depth. The reason is so you maintain some deep cool pockets.

The more I look at them, I like the idea of a windmill powered aerator. It looks like the pumps are rated for over 5 years service life and are easily repairable. In addition, it looks like you can also use the setup to pump water, which might work well for watering stock or irrigating. At least it gives you some more options.
 
   / Running 500 feet of underground wire.
  • Thread Starter
#33  
You will probably get a thermocline set up through the summer which if not penetrated by something (like rising air bubbles) can be quite dense.



TBN works better with pictures :)

OK, here it is.

Private Lake2.JPGPrivate Lake1.JPG
 
   / Running 500 feet of underground wire.
  • Thread Starter
#34  
OK, here it is. <img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/files/projects/433176-running-500-feet-underground-wire-private-lake2-jpg"/><img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/files/projects/433177-running-500-feet-underground-wire-private-lake1-jpg"/>

Here's a photo showing the beach



image-2890403690.jpg
 
   / Running 500 feet of underground wire. #35  
the bottom of a pond / lake = a septic tank. no way around it. it is a septic tank. by providing water currents that bring in higher DO (dissolved oxygen) level to the muck layer. you can help increase various bacteria, single cell organisms, etc... to help break down the ugly stinky mess on the bottom of the lake.

there are a variety of septic systems out there. what is mostly seen on homes. is all your poo goes to a large tank, and over time bacteria / single cell organisms break stuff down. ((anaerobic)) all the stuff that breaks it down, does not need oxygen.

another type, (i forget all the key terms), i want to call active, were you introduce bubbles, or a water pump. (primary goal) is to increase the DO (dissolved oxygen level) and to bring that enriched water into more contact with the muck. ((aerobic)) these bacteria / single cell organisms can break down the muck much faster. part of breaking down muck is also (off gassing) basically water picks up some nasty stuff, and as the water comes in contact with the air, it can release the nasty stuff into the air.

there is another type of filtration, that goes more directly to converting muck directly to stuff that can be off-gassed more directly but that is something else entirely.

=========
you are more likely to see an "aerobic" septic setup, on say a restaurant. vs some residential home. this is due to amount of overall organic crud going into the septic system (organic crud = all the food waste coming off folks plates when washing dishes) not to mention more folks using the bathroom more often.

==========
the air bubblers. are not the key thing. yes the help raise DO (dissolved oxygen) level. but not that much. it is the water currents that help bring higher DO water into contact with the muck layer in the bottom of the pond/lake. and then also bring that same water back up to pond/lake surface to off gas some stuff.

breaking down the muck layer does not happen over night, it takes time for bacteria / single cell organisms and like to break down the muck layer. it can easily take roughly 90 days for initial "aerobic" bacteria / single cell organisms to start taking hold. and then it may take 2 to 4 years for it to have a large overall benefit to the pond / lake. as things begin to break down.

the goal of adding air bubbler, or surface agitation, or other. is to change the system from an "anaerobic" (no oxygen) system to an "aerobic" system (relies more on more oxygen in the water).

==========
regardless of what you do... you will still have "thick mud" at the beach, granted goal is to help remove the "black sewer mud" and turn it into less nasty stinky mud.

doing above will help remove stuff for plants to grow. (removing nutrients) for the plants / vegetation / weeds.

the issue is... no matter what you do. plants will continue to grow. plants tend to grow 4feet deep and shallower. ((sun rays have a harder time penetrating deeper into the water past 4 feet)) but the plants should end up getting nocked back a descent amount (within reason)

i might encourage a "floating dock" or floating ramp, so you can get folks out past 4 to 5 feet depth. so they can climb up and down a ladder, without walking through the muck and weeds. this will more likely ensure those "city slickers" will go out into the water. vs giving you the ugly face because they need to walk through mud / weeds, and refuse to go out.

if you can lay some plastic or like down in the water. and over the muck. you might have something. no need to put anything on top of it. just make sure it is non see through and UV resistant. a WARNING plastic down below water = dangerous. once algae grows on it, and it will. it will make the plastic slicker than snot. and you will fall right on your rear and under water before you realized it. adding some sort of sand or like on top of the plastic = a place for weeds and like to begin to grow. (your are darned if you do, and darned if you do not).
--if you can get ahold of some thicker plastic, example pond liner (epdm or pvc or like) generally the thicker stuff when you go out and walk on it, your foot / toes will not puncture it as you walk over softer mud under it. have went through enough beaches, were they put down cheapest plastic they could find, and end up tripping / stubbing my feet into ripped up plastic under the water. hopefully with a thicker plastic, you will be able to say take a metal garden rake, and sweep across some sand placed on top of the plastic. to remove weeds / vegetation, without putting holes in the plastic.
 
   / Running 500 feet of underground wire.
  • Thread Starter
#36  
Check,
Look at the link I sent earlier in the post for a windmill powered aerator. That site had some guidelines for acreage, size, depth of air diffuser etc. According to that site, they recommended placing the diffusers at a location that is 1/2 the total depth. The reason is so you maintain some deep cool pockets.

The more I look at them, I like the idea of a windmill powered aerator. It looks like the pumps are rated for over 5 years service life and are easily repairable. In addition, it looks like you can also use the setup to pump water, which might work well for watering stock or irrigating. At least it gives you some more options.

Thanks, GSGANZER. I looked at the website and unfortunately I need a pretty big open area in which to operate the windmill, and my property is pretty much all Boreal Forest with pretty tall trees. (See the photos that I posted.)
 
   / Running 500 feet of underground wire.
  • Thread Starter
#37  
the bottom of a pond / lake = a septic tank. no way around it. it is a septic tank. by providing water currents that bring in higher DO (dissolved oxygen) level to the muck layer. you can help increase various bacteria, single cell organisms, etc... to help break down the ugly stinky mess on the bottom of the lake.

there are a variety of septic systems out there. what is mostly seen on homes. is all your poo goes to a large tank, and over time bacteria / single cell organisms break stuff down. ((anaerobic)) all the stuff that breaks it down, does not need oxygen.

another type, (i forget all the key terms), i want to call active, were you introduce bubbles, or a water pump. (primary goal) is to increase the DO (dissolved oxygen level) and to bring that enriched water into more contact with the muck. ((aerobic)) these bacteria / single cell organisms can break down the muck much faster. part of breaking down muck is also (off gassing) basically water picks up some nasty stuff, and as the water comes in contact with the air, it can release the nasty stuff into the air.

there is another type of filtration, that goes more directly to converting muck directly to stuff that can be off-gassed more directly but that is something else entirely.

=========
you are more likely to see an "aerobic" septic setup, on say a restaurant. vs some residential home. this is due to amount of overall organic crud going into the septic system (organic crud = all the food waste coming off folks plates when washing dishes) not to mention more folks using the bathroom more often.

==========
the air bubblers. are not the key thing. yes the help raise DO (dissolved oxygen) level. but not that much. it is the water currents that help bring higher DO water into contact with the muck layer in the bottom of the pond/lake. and then also bring that same water back up to pond/lake surface to off gas some stuff.

breaking down the muck layer does not happen over night, it takes time for bacteria / single cell organisms and like to break down the muck layer. it can easily take roughly 90 days for initial "aerobic" bacteria / single cell organisms to start taking hold. and then it may take 2 to 4 years for it to have a large overall benefit to the pond / lake. as things begin to break down.

the goal of adding air bubbler, or surface agitation, or other. is to change the system from an "anaerobic" (no oxygen) system to an "aerobic" system (relies more on more oxygen in the water).

==========
regardless of what you do... you will still have "thick mud" at the beach, granted goal is to help remove the "black sewer mud" and turn it into less nasty stinky mud.

doing above will help remove stuff for plants to grow. (removing nutrients) for the plants / vegetation / weeds.

the issue is... no matter what you do. plants will continue to grow. plants tend to grow 4feet deep and shallower. ((sun rays have a harder time penetrating deeper into the water past 4 feet)) but the plants should end up getting nocked back a descent amount (within reason)

i might encourage a "floating dock" or floating ramp, so you can get folks out past 4 to 5 feet depth. so they can climb up and down a ladder, without walking through the muck and weeds. this will more likely ensure those "city slickers" will go out into the water. vs giving you the ugly face because they need to walk through mud / weeds, and refuse to go out.

if you can lay some plastic or like down in the water. and over the muck. you might have something. no need to put anything on top of it. just make sure it is non see through and UV resistant. a WARNING plastic down below water = dangerous. once algae grows on it, and it will. it will make the plastic slicker than snot. and you will fall right on your rear and under water before you realized it. adding some sort of sand or like on top of the plastic = a place for weeds and like to begin to grow. (your are darned if you do, and darned if you do not).
--if you can get ahold of some thicker plastic, example pond liner (epdm or pvc or like) generally the thicker stuff when you go out and walk on it, your foot / toes will not puncture it as you walk over softer mud under it. have went through enough beaches, were they put down cheapest plastic they could find, and end up tripping / stubbing my feet into ripped up plastic under the water. hopefully with a thicker plastic, you will be able to say take a metal garden rake, and sweep across some sand placed on top of the plastic. to remove weeds / vegetation, without putting holes in the plastic.

Thanks again, Ryan. You are certainly a WEALTH of information, and there is some good stuff to follow up on. Keeping in mind that I don't want the lower levels of the lake to be warmed up by too much movement up to the surface, I will have to survey the lake (perhaps this weekend), at first by just snorkeling around. Maybe I will even see some of my Trout! (Unfortunately, after putting some 300, 5-inch Rainbow Trout into the lake this Spring, The Mergansers descended upon the lake and murdered who knows how many of the little guys.)

I should also try and get a thermometer down deep to see just how cold it is near the bottom, because of the possibility that wind currents have already circulated a lot of the water from top to bottom. It is a pretty good-sized body of water, with about a 6.4 acre surface area and an average depth more than 25 feet (perhaps even a lot more). Will keep everyone posted and thanks for all the interest and great input!

James
 
   / Running 500 feet of underground wire.
  • Thread Starter
#38  
Looking at the cost of power from Hydro One (The Ontario Power utility), if I run a 5 amp pump during off-peak hours only (7 PM to 7 AM), it costs 8 cents per kilowatt hour. Correct me if I am wring, but 120 volts X 5 amps = 600 watts or .6 kw, times 12 hours x 31 days = 223 kwh, times 8 cents per kwh = about $18 per month. Hydro One adds about that amount again as a "distribution charge, so I am looking at ROUGHLY $40 per month to run a 5 amp pump 12 hrs per day (basically, at night). And I would do this perhaps from about May 1 until about the end of October (6 months), for a total annual cost of about $240.

Solar power is free of course, but the units I have seen are very expensive for a lake of my size.
 
   / Running 500 feet of underground wire. #39  
I've had the pleasure of digging post holes in Haliburton County and it has the rockiest soil I've ever seen -- and I'm from New England. It may be very difficult to dig a trench for a wire.
 

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