Any news on gas engine CUTS?

[hutchman]

Don't worry this thread is still twirling in the same circles from when I was in it earlier. Lol

I know! I'm getting dizzy. Reminds me of the old saying ... opinions are like buttholes. Everybody has one and they all stink!

It might be time for more absurd alien guy posts again. I thought that would kill off the thread last time but it got resurrected somehow.

 

[hutchman]

As long as our gas contains ethanol, I don't want any thing gasoline that is a seldom run or seasonal run engine. I have enough trouble keeping my lawnmower's engines from clogging up with crap from the gasoline today. I sure don't wont to have to run my tank dry on my tractor every time I park it for an extended time, and with my tractors, extended time might be anytime I stop it after I finish a task. MY LS hasn't been fired up in 3 months basically since I tilled the garden this spring. Fuel storage would be terrible also for a tractor with 20 gallon tank. You couldn't stock pile 100 gallons for a year and expect it to be fresh when you need it like you can with diesel.

Gasoline is ok for my chainsaw, weedeater and lawnmower but leave my tractor alone as it is with its diesel engine.

+1 my feelings exactly. I don't get too upset having to throw away a weed eater (I'm only on my second one in 20+ years) when it gets hosed up but there is a huge money difference between that and my tractor.

For a daily driver, E10 is OK. I don't like it but not much I can do about it. It doesnt give me much problem other than knowing I'm giving up a few MPG.

But for stuff that gets infrequent use and requires long term storage ... I'll pick diesel every time.

 

[MossRoad]

Note you said late 70's. Lets recall a low compression gas with a carb and points ignition. Lets think 2015 with a high compression DI gas vs a Tier Iv diesel. With diesel costs more per gallon than gasoline. Why can't some people flip the pages ahead on the calendar 40 years ?

Flip it ahead all you want. A diesel engine is built heavier and will stand up to heavy use longer than current gas engines. Diesel prices have dropped like a rock and its within 10 cents per gallon of gas now and way cheaper if you buy off-road diesel for your tractor. If gasoline worked better for fleet trucks, don't you think the trucking industry would have switched to gas by now? They haven't because it doesn't make economic sense. I'm pro gasoline. I love my GDI Impala. And I love my gas powered Power Trac tractor. I hate diesel. But even I recognize that gasoline is the wrong tool for the job in conventional tractor applications.

 

[MossRoad]

Depends on the forklift and the driver...
We have several at work that are used for dumping fruit into a bulk truck, they are setup with a forward bin dumper (like this one: https://www.cascorp.com/americas/en/forwardbindumper ).
When the guys run that, its running wide open to lift 1500-2000# up to the top of the trailer and dump the bins, then it idles while it comes down, then they floor it to drive over to the row of empty bins, drop the two empties, back off the throttle to change directions, then grab another two full bins and push the pedal to the floor to begin again.
Is it at 100% load all the time? No, but it probably averages a 60-70% load on the engine for 1-5 hours at a stretch.
Its a lot more load than our BX2660 gets when mowing (because it cant move fast enough to load the engine down in grass that is less than 6" tall) or plowing snow.

Aaron Z

I don't know... I drove forklifts for about 6 years loading airplanes and several years unloading semi's of skids and moving heavy machinery. I still get on them a couple times each year to keep in practice. High RPM doesn't equal high load. Yeah, we floored it to get from point A to point B faster, but that's not a heavy load and the engines had governors and that limited the top speed and RPMs. And the only reason we hit the accelerator when lifting was to get it lifted faster, not because it was a heavy load. I think that's why they are gas and LP powered... because they don't need to provide much torque ever. That, and as others have mentioned, you can run them inside VS a diesel without choking everyone to death.

 

[paulfun9]

This is the key factor. Nobody makes a gasoline engine "for the use" we're talking about. That's what I'm saying over and over.




The engine in question was operated within it's normal RPM range. It wasn't revved over the limit, and there was no parts failure to allow it to go beyond redline. It was simply worked near it's maximum capability for an extended period of time. That's the exact difference I'm talking about. A light-duty cycle engine, like what gets put in cars is capable of being worked hard enough to cause major damage without exceeding it's normal limits. A heavy-duty cycle engine won't hurt itself without something unusual happening.

I find this hard to believe as I have owned vets and know for fact if you hold the pedal to the floor in first gear it will over rev! Heck I have even over reved them in second and third not to mention fourth and fifth along with a 180 shot of Nitrous

So lets let the Vette aside since I will no longer believe anything you say about that incident!

I thought a lot about your statement about fork lifts being light duty and I have to agree with aczlan that they are not light duty for most applications I have seen. They haul in most cases more weight to begin with, more weight on the forks and are run with a load more often than not. I also haven't seen but the worst operator driving them gingerly with anything other than foot to the floor and most don't even use the brake they just skid the tires as they slam the lever from forward to reverse and lets not forget that most I have seen also run bigger pumps with more flow.

 

[GManBart]

So.. the diesel has to be a lot larger and more expensive to get the same power...err.. you're switching sides here?

No. The engines make the same peak power, but the forklift engine isn't designed to run at that rated power continuously for thousands and thousands of hours, where the tractor engine is. The forklift engine is simply built for a lighter duty-cycle than the tractor engine...they rarely stays at rated power for more than a few seconds at a time, where tractor engines run at rated power for many hours at a time.

 

[GManBart]

This talk of gas industrial and stock light engines blowing up when reved to redline is rubbish. btw lets talk about all the video's of diesel pickup truck engine failures since you brought i up. Quit trotting that drivel out. The reason why you see gas engines blow up is because you are watching a nascar engine built for max power and to last only 550 miles . What would you expect to see happen ?
The spark ignition engines in industrial and light highway applications spend less time in the shop per hour and per mile than the diesels and their emission system problems.

Talk about making stuff up and taking things out of context! I'm not talking about racing car engines, so don't put words into my mouth.

Unfortunately for your ridiculous defense of an engine that doesn't exist, we're not talking about spark ignition engines in light highway applications, or industrial engines that are currently available, so you have ZERO data to work off. Go find a modern DI gasser engine that would be suitable in a CUT/SCUT, and get some data off it, then you'll have actual facts.

Other than that, you're simply guessing and making apples-to-oranges comparisons.

 

[GManBart]

"Any gas engine, in any application in any tractor is inferior"............. Reminds me of something I seen somewhere. Quote "Nothing bothers a troll more than ignoring them....well that and actual facts." Unquote

Funny...you have zero facts, and you want to bring that up?

Nobody makes the mythical gas engine you claim would be superior to a diesel in a modern tractor. Go find that engine, then you can't talk about facts.

 

[GManBart]

I find this hard to believe as I have owned vets and know for fact if you hold the pedal to the floor in first gear it will over rev! Heck I have even over reved them in second and third not to mention fourth and fifth along with a 180 shot of Nitrous

So lets let the Vette aside since I will no longer believe anything you say about that incident!

I thought a lot about your statement about fork lifts being light duty and I have to agree with aczlan that they are not light duty for most applications I have seen. They haul in most cases more weight to begin with, more weight on the forks and are run with a load more often than not. I also haven't seen but the worst operator driving them gingerly with anything other than foot to the floor and most don't even use the brake they just skid the tires as they slam the lever from forward to reverse and lets not forget that most I have seen also run bigger pumps with more flow.

Right, I'm going to make up a lie about a Corvette to impress some folks on the internet. I wasn't in the car, so I don't know how high the engine was turning, but it had a catastrophic failure and it was in first gear the whole time. The fact remains that a tractor engine won't blow up when subject to that sort of situation....throttle wide open. They are designed so they can't hurt themselves. Light-duty engines aren't designed that way....that's the whole point. If you think I'm lying about it happening, just put me on ignore.

I've been around forklifts a lot and if they aren't light-duty, they're certainly not a heavy-duty cycle. Slamming from forward to reverse, and having weight on the forks etc, has very little bearing on what happens to the engine. They don't spend much time making their rated maximum power, at least in most environments, and that's the critical difference. Time at rated power is the key factor.

 

[buickanddeere]

No it wouldn't, I run them every day.
They throttle up and down just as fast as the non turbo diesels IMO.

You are saying that there is no turbo lag? We all know that can't be true