CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours

[Ford850]

Just a few thoughts after reading this whole thread...

- There is no way your neighbor could have caused this by working it twice a day for one hour at a time, while moving gravel on a level surface. Bad luck, unlucky timing, fluke poor quality, call it what you want. You should mend any awkwardness with your neighbor if he's a good one. They are hard to find.

- Everyone shares some blame on this one though... you started the tractor to load it and haul to dealer #1 knowing how bad it sounded. Then dealer #1 allowed you to start it again to unload it. And started it again to reload it to take it to dealer #2. Dealer #2 allowed you to start it to unload it. Then after tearing it down and finding the mess they did, the dumped the oil and grit and all back into the engine, and restarted it to load it yet again. Wow. That just seems wrong to me, but I'm not a mechanic.

Good luck on the outcome. I'm hoping Kioti steps up for you.

 

[CenTex Chris]

We don't know if it was the neighbor's use, what he was using the tractor for, or what his level of experience with tractors is.

He's got more experience with tractors than me, actually. Over the long term that is. He's been the definition of a good neighbor and he's helped me out of a jam more than once. I've been comfortable loaning my tractor to him, although when he first borrowed it five years ago I had to yell at him to keep his foot off the clutch because he had never driven a hydrostat before. He's used to larger utility tractors with shuttle shift and mine is the first and only compact hydro he's ever been on. So yes I was a bit suspicious that maybe he was pushing it too hard. It's difficult to say if he was or not. Maybe he just aggravated a pre-ordained failure with a some extra RPM's.

The photo below won't reveal the man's identity so I'm comfortable posting it. This was a work weekend on our private road from five years ago. That's my CK35 on the right. I had just bought it. He's on a borrowed Massey 1533 (bigger, but about the same HP as mine). This will give you an idea of the terrain where this breakdown happened... a straight, level road about 0.8 miles long, moving base gravel with bucket, box and blade. This time it was just him on my tractor doing all the work, but he was taking it easy with frequent breaks due to the heat (as far as I can tell, the tractor did *not* overheat... but he almost did).

- There is no way your neighbor could have caused this by working it twice a day for one hour at a time, while moving gravel on a level surface. Bad luck, unlucky timing, fluke poor quality, call it what you want. You should mend any awkwardness with your neighbor if he's a good one. They are hard to find.

Yeah, I want to keep him. The only awkwardness involved here is that I've got to find a diplomatic way to break the news that I'm not loaning out this or any other tractor anymore. We had both grown used to his frequent borrowing. I'll have to find a nice way of explaining that it's not him, it's me. I'm sure it'll work out fine. He's always been a good guy.

- Everyone shares some blame on this one though... you started the tractor to load it and haul to dealer #1 knowing how bad it sounded. Then dealer #1 allowed you to start it again to unload it. And started it again to reload it to take it to dealer #2. Dealer #2 allowed you to start it to unload it. Then after tearing it down and finding the mess they did, the dumped the oil and grit and all back into the engine, and restarted it to load it yet again.

That's all true. It was also operated in this condition for no small amount of time while doing real work, not just creeping up and down the trailer.

 

[Coyote machine]

Chris,

Here's the bottom line for you and your tractor from my POV. You're a *beggar and a beggar can't be a chooser. By this I mean you're totally at Kioti's mercy, so take the best offer you can get and don't look the horse in the mouth. Worrying about the other two pistons is not a process you can afford. They're better that the one that blew out, since they did not fail when the one did. If Kioti puts your engine back together, and it runs out the dealer's door, count your blessings.

You have little to no leverage over them. If you end up with no further expense, consider yourself very lucky. Right now you have a scrap tractor. Fixed and running is worth thousands whether you keep it or sell it.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but it's the truth, and sometimes it hurts. (*I don't mean beggar literally, just figuratively, to make my point, based on the common colloquial expression).
Life is short; come to an agreement, get it done, move on.

Seal whatever deal you can get and move on. It's a motor in a tractor, nothing more or less.

 

[aczlan]

Here's the bottom line for you and your tractor from my POV. You're a *beggar and a beggar can't be a chooser. By this I mean you're totally at Kioti's mercy, so take the best offer you can get and don't look the horse in the mouth. Worrying about the other two pistons is not a process you can afford. They're better that the one that blew out, since they did not fail when the one did. If Kioti puts your engine back together, and it runs out the dealer's door, count your blessings.

You have little to no leverage over them. If you end up with no further expense, consider yourself very lucky. Right now you have a scrap tractor. Fixed and running is worth thousands whether you keep it or sell it.

As I said before, if it were me and Kioti would only replace one piston, I would ask the dealer what it would cost for me to pay for the other pistons (being as they will all probably need to come out to check for cracks). That way you can tell a buyer that all the pistons were replaced (which would make me as a buyer more comfortable with the machine).

Aaron Z

 

[Coyote machine]

As I said before, if it were me and Kioti would only replace one piston, I would ask the dealer what it would cost for me to pay for the other pistons (being as they will all probably need to come out to check for cracks). That way you can tell a buyer that all the pistons were replaced (which would make me as a buyer more comfortable with the machine).

Aaron Z

Yeah, IF it were you, BUT it's not, and Chris can't afford to fix it period, so adding extra labor and pistons, etc. won't be happening here.

 

[Teachu2]

Anyone want to hazard a guess what the value would be to Kioti's reputation, brand value, and market share if they were to release a statement that said "This is a very unusual occurrence for Kioti, and Kioti's commitment to quality and customer satisfaction is so vital to our company that we wish to thoroughly investigate this matter. In order to do so, we will need extensive analysis which will require extensive time and effort at our headquarters. Rather than allow our valued customer to suffer the loss of use of his Kioti for this extended time, we are replacing this particular tractor at our expense." I believe such an action would be far more meaningful than $20k in advertising could be.

Many years ago, a story circulated among RV'ers about an incident involving an Airstream trailer. The story was that a recently-retired couple had purchased a new Airstream travel trailer to enjoy in their retirement. While traveling in a mountainous area, they had been involved in a collision and the trailer had separated from their tow vehicle, gone off the road, and rolled several times down a steep mountainside. According to the story, the trailer looked to be intact, but all the interior cabinetry and furnishings had broken loose and destroyed the interior. The Airsteam company rep for the area became involved, and Airstream replaced the trailer so that they could study the wreck and determine if they could improve the design. I heard this story several times, in several states, but never verified it's truth. The story became part of the Airstream legend, long before the Internet.

If Kioti stepped up and replaced this tractor, would it become part of their legend? What could that be worth? I'd bet there's a bean counter at Kioti wrestling with that question....

 

[Coyote machine]

There is NO WAY in heii that Kioti will be replacing this tractor. Period, end of story. It's OFF warranty, there is NO obligation on their part, and nobody is trying to decide whether to replace it with a new one. Total fantasy, Airstream urban legend aside....

 

[Fawken]

Anyone want to hazard a guess what the value would be to Kioti's reputation, brand value, and market share if they were to release a statement that said "This is a very unusual occurrence for Kioti, and Kioti's commitment to quality and customer satisfaction is so vital to our company that we wish to thoroughly investigate this matter. In order to do so, we will need extensive analysis which will require extensive time and effort at our headquarters. Rather than allow our valued customer to suffer the loss of use of his Kioti for this extended time, we are replacing this particular tractor at our expense." I believe such an action would be far more meaningful than $20k in advertising could be.

Many years ago, a story circulated among RV'ers about an incident involving an Airstream trailer. The story was that a recently-retired couple had purchased a new Airstream travel trailer to enjoy in their retirement. While traveling in a mountainous area, they had been involved in a collision and the trailer had separated from their tow vehicle, gone off the road, and rolled several times down a steep mountainside. According to the story, the trailer looked to be intact, but all the interior cabinetry and furnishings had broken loose and destroyed the interior. The Airsteam company rep for the area became involved, and Airstream replaced the trailer so that they could study the wreck and determine if they could improve the design. I heard this story several times, in several states, but never verified it's truth. The story became part of the Airstream legend, long before the Internet.

If Kioti stepped up and replaced this tractor, would it become part of their legend? What could that be worth? I'd bet there's a bean counter at Kioti wrestling with that question....

It would be worth a lot to me as a business owner- and I have owned two businesses. I would make a deal with Chris and he would in exchange agree to allow his story to be used for marketing purposes. One tractor out of thousands, of course I would do it- unless of course that I was concerned it may be a design flaw and there may be many more of these piston failures down the road. There are expressed warranties and implied warranties. If I had a kioti with 1 year left on the warranty I'd be running it day and night. You get to a 1000 hours on a machine that size you're likely in the clear.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Market tag line:

We made ten-thousand tractors.

<Images of assembly line and a zillion tractors, cut to tractors being delivered, cut to tractors being used.>

This one broke.

<cut to CenTex Chris standing next to his tractor>

So we fixed it.

<cut to Chris using his tractor>

<Cross-fade filter>

"Kioti: you can run with it"

<fade to black>

 

[murphy1244]

Market tag line:

We made ten-thousand tractors.

<Images of assembly line and a zillion tractors, cut to tractors being delivered, cut to tractors being used.>

This one broke.

<cut to CenTex Chris standing next to his tractor>

So we fixed it.

<cut to Chris using his tractor>

<Cross-fade filter>

"Kioti: you can run with it"

<fade to black>

:thumbsup: I like it.