CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours

[holeycow]

Kioti is obviously interested in this case. They are in the driver's seat, unless you take that right away from them.

No one in their right mind would assume responsibility based on pictures. Kioti is being cautious, as they should.

Make sure Kioti and the dealer know that you are concerned about costs. Any costs to you are at your discretion. Be careful with that one. If everything is as it apperars to be with that engine, then I can't see why Kioti wouldn't fix it for you. Or at least give you a big break on the cost. Sometimes these kinds of things work out very well, with everybody happy. Good people make that happen.

 

[Tompet]

Chris,

Ay any-rate, I suggest that you allow the dealer Kioti wants to look at your tractor to look at your tractor. You have nothing to lose.

Allow Kioti some measure of control of the narrative and think of this as a plot-twist and allow the story to move forward.

After reading through this interesting thread on a difficult situation and all of the knowledgable advice offered, at this point I agree with the preceding quote (and holycow's response I just read). You wrote after the initial bad experience with your dealer, upon speaking to the owner their response has been very positive. Prior to bringing it back to dealer, I would suggest outlining (to the dealer) what you find acceptable at an absolute minimum, but with the understanding you strongly prefer say action X that he can convey to Kioti and all the possible "diagnosis" charges that you want assurance goes to Kioti.

At least let it run it's course through the corporate beurocracy for a possible positive resolution. You can always go with your local diesel mechanic with his approach as a good backup plan.

Once repaired, I know you disagree with this, but, I would be in the camp of keeping the tractor unless you want to upgrade to a larger machine. Anyway, with what appears as a defective piston play along a little while longer. Best of luck.

 

[deezler]

I don't particularly understand why the topic of replacing the other two pistons is producing any debate. IMO the answer is very simple:

- the engine will be nearly fully disassembled to get the broken piston out. At this time, you really ought to:
- simply unbolt the rods in the other two cylinders and pop the assemblies out. Wash and inspect the pistons very carefully. Including crack detection.
- if anything, at all, is seen on the other two pistons, you replace them.
- also inspect the bores for excessive scratching or scuffing. A little bit of vertical scratching is to be expected given the circumstances, and is ok. But use the fingernail test - if you can get your nail hung up on scratches easily, it's probably needing repair/replacement.
- if the pistons look perfect, you do't need to replace, and throw 'em back in. Simple as that.

After this process, I'm guessing your engine (again, following a full tear down for the full assessment of damage) will run just fine. At which point I hope you do reconsider keeping the tractor to minimize your losses. It really shouldn't be a ticking time bomb if the tear-down inspection and subsequent rebuild are done correctly. Get in there and check everything yourself, and of course, share some high res pics with all us nitpickers here on the 'net.

Good luck!

 

[dfkrug]

Meanwhile... Plan B. I had a chat today with my friendly neighborhood diesel mechanic, whom I have known and given business to for 13 years, about what it would take to do the piston replacement. His blue-sky, no-surprises estimate is around $750 to $1000 for labor, plus parts, which I'm figuring to be in the $350 range (cylinder head gasket, piston, rings). For the one piston. And I can afford that. If it's economically feasible, then I'll do all three. I would feel so much better about selling it that way, it would be so much easier and I'd sleep a lot better with all three pistons replaced. It's just a matter of cost. If there are folks here who know, I might be running part numbers by you to make sure I'm ordering the right stuff. Have you seen a CK series parts list? I have and it's **** confusing.

I looked earlier at my CK25/30 parts book....similar to yours, but your pistons and/or liners are going
to be different. I am curious what Kioti charges for liners.

Anyway, it seems to me that replacement of the liner in the bad hole is going to be more
desirable and important than the other 2 pistons. Disassembly will tell.

Your local mechanic's rough quote is good. He is prob planning to do this without
splitting the tractor. That looks doable, since removing the crankshaft would not
be necessary. The only issue I see is if you have to replace the liner. Wet or dry,
these liners often are hard to remove. The last ones I did took the full force of
my 20T press.

 

[swines]

1. Call the Kioti dealer owner that you spoke with and ask him for an appointment to go over the emails from Kioti with him and the service manager.

2. Print out the emails, go to the dealer, let the owner and service manager read them. Then ask them what they feel the best action would be.

3. Make sure it is clear to them that you are hesitant to expend further money on the tractor until you have some kind of commitment from Kioti. What is their suggestion as to how to accomplish the next step without you paying additional money?

Make sure they understand that everyone likes a good fishing expedition - you just don't want to pay for it.

it's time to get the dealer involved with his supplier and let them run a little inference for you.

 

[CenTex Chris]

Thanks everyone. Based on all of your helpful input, I have decided to schedule an appointment with the dealership owner and his service manager first, before they get the tractor, in order to go over these issues in detail. Basically I need to know at what point will Kioti make a decision about supporting an out-of-warranty repair. I'll ask for a parts & labor estimate on a single piston replacement, removal and inspection of the other two pistons and replacement if required plus a sleeve inspection and replacement if necessary. To what stage of disassembly do they need to reach in order for Kioti to make a determination whether or not to step in and cover it, and if so, how much will they cover, those are my primary questions.

Several times I've been told by this dealership and by some of you folks here that Kioti will definitely want to recover the remains of the piston for in-house examination and failure analysis. That may be true; guess I'm about to find out. However I'm not going to pay further out of pocket in order to provide that for them. If they really want that piston back, they'll have to get it on their own dime, not mine. I'm not about to just hand it over on the chance that they'll come back and say "sorry, we can't help you with this." I'll need up-front assurance that it won't go that way. Otherwise there's no incentive for me to take it to the dealer since my own mechanic is confident he can do the same work for probably much less (depending on the dealer's estimate, of course). I'll have to double-check with my local guy again about sleeve replacement.

Does Kioti really want to see this piston? That's what's going to determine their involvement. As usual, I'll hope for the best but expect the worst. If this job lands at my local mechanic's shop, then I'll keep you entertained with numerous photos of the process (not really an option if the dealer gets it). Either way, we're going to make this thing run again.

 

[Coyote machine]

Your plan sounds good Chris. Keep the communication open with the dealer, and let them know for sure you don't want any step in your process skipped or done without prior approval from you. Best of luck in this endeavor. Hope it goes in your favor all the way.:thumbsup:

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Does Kioti really want to see this piston? That's what's going to determine their involvement. As usual, I'll hope for the best but expect the worst. If this job lands at my local mechanic's shop, then I'll keep you entertained with numerous photos of the process (not really an option if the dealer gets it). Either way, we're going to make this thing run again.

It is commonplace for machine OEMs of every stripe to ask for warrantee parts back. In this way the OEM builds a cumulative case of what and how things have failed so that they can learn from the failures and improve future designs.

 

[CenTex Chris]

It is commonplace for machine OEMs of every stripe to ask for warrantee parts back.

I'd very much like for them to get their parts back. It's their decision.

 

[aczlan]

Several times I've been told by this dealership and by some of you folks here that Kioti will definitely want to recover the remains of the piston for in-house examination and failure analysis. That may be true; guess I'm about to find out. However I'm not going to pay further out of pocket in order to provide that for them. If they really want that piston back, they'll have to get it on their own dime, not mine. I'm not about to just hand it over on the chance that they'll come back and say "sorry, we can't help you with this." I'll need up-front assurance that it won't go that way. Otherwise there's no incentive for me to take it to the dealer since my own mechanic is confident he can do the same work for probably much less (depending on the dealer's estimate, of course). I'll have to double-check with my local guy again about sleeve replacement.

Makes sense. If they want it back, they should pay to have it replaced.

Aaron Z