Any news on gas engine CUTS?

[buickanddeere]

I never said anything about "knock" . . now did I buick? You just made it up. My high performance gas truck engine can run on crappy 87 or 89 octaned ethanol even without "knock". But it runs in a far poorer combustion situation which on a tier 4 or tier 5 tractor requirement would never pass . . and it would do it at inferior power levels and poor mileage numbers.

Put in non ethanol 90 or 91 octane and the engine is transformed. And this at only a 10.1 compression.

Have you noticed the topic was direct injection DI spark ignition engines and not port injection spark ignition engines ?
I did not invent knock or detonation either . Pinging or preignition predates my birth by many decades.

 

[buickanddeere]

Futures buying of crude in 2020 is less than 68.00 per barrel and that is out 4 years. And if you don't understand what that means . .
Ask someone and they will tell you that is a very strong indication that oil will not swing back to the 80 to 125 dollar a barrel level.

Come on Buick, you aren't dealing with children. The markets out 2 and 3 and 4 years out are saying the pricing bracket for oil is dropping because we have the techniques now to harvest PLENTIFUL quantities for many many years at lower prices and better quality.

Tier 5 for diesel will become much easier to accomplish . . but not so for gasoline.

We are dealing with people smart enough to tip the market into $67 futures . In four years time they will be sell $95 futures for eight years from now. Open market price in eight years will be $60.
Tell us they are not purchasers right now locked in paying $75 and higher for crude they locked in contract 2,3 or four years ago .
As for Tier V which limits CO2. Gasoline , the alcohols , LP and NG make up a greater percent of hydrogen per btu than diesel. Hydrogen when burned goes up the stack as water and is of no concern to the EPA. The burning carbon however , with diesel emitting more per btu has the EPA all over it.

 

[buickanddeere]

I never said anything about "knock" . . now did I buick? You just made it up. My high performance gas truck engine can run on crappy 87 or 89 octaned ethanol even without "knock". But it runs in a far poorer combustion situation which on a tier 4 or tier 5 tractor requirement would never pass . . and it would do it at inferior power levels and poor mileage numbers.

Put in non ethanol 90 or 91 octane and the engine is transformed. And this at only a 10.1 compression

 

[AxleHub]

Someone with knowledge of the engine builders messaged me that one builder had done preliminary development work in the past 24 months . . . on gas engine potential in small tractors as we've been discussing.

Apparently the metalurgy requirements to deal with the combination of vibration isolation and substantial cooling jacket needs outweighed any possible pricing incentives or competitive advantages over the maturing diesel developments that the engine manufacturer has ongoing.

And tip over liability with gas is a greater manufacturer concern than with diesel. Apparently the latest studies on small tractor accidents has greatly increased with the types of rural residential terrain tractors are acquired for.

He disclosed no names or country affiliation but apparently the gas concept had been considered for the North American markets. Again . . no plan to continue the preliminary effort.

 

[DarkBlack]

My high performance gas truck engine can run on crappy 87 or 89 octaned ethanol even without "knock". But it runs in a far poorer combustion situation which on a tier 4 or tier 5 tractor requirement would never pass . . and it would do it at inferior power levels and poor mileage numbers.

Another useless empty argument from you. Gee... are gas engines under the tier 4 diesel engine scope?

 

[DarkBlack]

It will require high compression gas engines with clean burn characteristics. A high compression engine is typically defined as an above 9.1 compression ratio. 9.1 and below allows use of regular gas (preferably none ethanol). To attain both cleaner burning and higher compression ratio performance a non-ethanol octane of 90 or above is desired with even higher octane levels for cpmpression ratios above 12.

Failure to use a higher octane in a high compression engine will cause 2 things:

My 11:5 compression ratio motorcycle runs on 87, and was designed to use it. Looks like there's more involved in engine designing than you understand.

 

[DarkBlack]

Here's a relevent read:

"Switch to gas

Some equipment manufacturers are reacting to the new diesel requirements by abandoning diesel engines altogether. For example, Whiteman, a division of Multiquip, has converted one of its ride-on power trowels to gasoline. In this conversion, most of the initial concerns Whiteman had about noise, heat, and balance of the machine were resolved.

“From a horsepower and torque standpoint,” says Dan Roche at Briggs & Stratton. “Our Big Block Vanguard engines match up to the lower end of Tier 4-affected diesel engines. Those diesels are required to meet tighter emissions goals than in the past and the cost and complexity of compliance is making it difficult for OEMs to stick with diesels. That’s why a growing number of OEMs are considering air-cooled gas engines to maintain selling prices while delivering comparable performance.”"
The Impact of Tier 4 Diesel Engines - Concrete Construction

 

[DarkBlack]

Someone with knowledge of the engine builders messaged me that one builder had done preliminary development work in the past 24 months . . . on gas engine potential in small tractors as we've been discussing.

And now this....from the poster of arrogant condescending posts on the previous pages.
I guess now that you have validated it from somewhere other than some of us here, it must be worthy of conversing now.:thumbdown:

 

[SPYDERLK]

-Starting and stoping loaded is harder on an engine than a fixed continuos load in the power band.
(we probably agree on that)

-engines of any petroleum based fuel can run in their optimum power band they were designed for, for a long time.
(we probably agree on that)

-gas engines of years ago withstood the test of time. They were built much stronger then. Some probably stronger than a present diesel of similar hp. So not a great comparison for modern gas or diesel.
(we probably agree on that)

With that said I don't think a gas engine would be a total bust in cuts maybe not the best move but many have no interest in modern emissions diesels they are forced due to lack of options. A gas engine with today's ignition and fuel injection in a tractor would work. Yes some components would have to be beefed up. I don't foresee manufacturers spending money on R+D and production changes for this though. I have gas and diesel trucks and tractors. If I could switch my older gas ford to a multiport injected distributorless engine tomorrow I would because it's industry proven tough. Diesel tractors do their job and do it well I have no argument there.

Yep, pretty much agree with all of that.

I can see no reason to agree with all of that. An engine very happy with short bursts of power often fails due to heat buildup when delivering sustained full power. Running a warmed engine at varied power levels is actually quite healthy.

 

[DarkBlack]

An engine very happy with short bursts of power often fails due to heat buildup when delivering sustained full power.

You're making it up. Engines don't 'often' fail for heat buildup when run at designed power outputs.
What exactly is "An engine very happy with short bursts of power "?