FEL wont stay up

[LD1]

Oh boy.

With needle valves closing off the cylinder, you could take the whole freaking piston out, seals and sll/, and it still ain't gonna move. PERIOD.

If it did, it could only be caused by an external leak at the fitting BEFORE the needle valve, or a leaking gland seal. BOTH would be clearly visible by the puddle of oil.

The pressure difference could be 10000 psi for all I care. The fraction of a thousandth of an inch that the rod may move will equalize the pressure since fluid don't compress. Even if there is a tad bit of air in the cylinder, once that void is taken, all movement stops. It isn't going to continue to drift at a steady pace until its on the ground.

I AM making a definitive statement that the spool valve is the only way a loader will drop...PROVIDED there is no external leakage of the hoses, fittings, gland seal, etc.

I am glad you finally admit that the valve is the major cause for loader drop. When did you change your time on that?

 

[J_J]

Oh boy.

With needle valves closing off the cylinder, you could take the whole freaking piston out, seals and sll/, and it still ain't gonna move. PERIOD.

If it did, it could only be caused by an external leak at the fitting BEFORE the needle valve, or a leaking gland seal. BOTH would be clearly visible by the puddle of oil.

The pressure difference could be 10000 psi for all I care. The fraction of a thousandth of an inch that the rod may move will equalize the pressure since fluid don't compress. Even if there is a tad bit of air in the cylinder, once that void is taken, all movement stops. It isn't going to continue to drift at a steady pace until its on the ground.

I AM making a definitive statement that the spool valve is the only way a loader will drop...PROVIDED there is no external leakage of the hoses, fittings, gland seal, etc.

I am glad you finally admit that the valve is the major cause for loader drop. When did you change your time on that?

Did you not read that article from Prince. I guess not. Then why mark off the cyl rod to see what the leakage rate is?

I am fairly sure if the rod moved, then there was some fluid transfer.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

What I said was that with the needle valves closed off, there would be no fluid to the spools.

If the lift arms did move, what do you think would cause that to happen. You only have one guess.

With a pressure differential of 1000 psi, is it possible for fluid to transfer from a high pressure side to a lower pressure part of the cyl. Perhaps until the pressure were equal on both sides of the piston.

If the base end of a cyl contains about 50 cc of fluid and the rod end potential volume is about 30 cc, is it possible that 30cc of fluid from the base end might transfer to the rod side, until the pressure on both sided of the piston is equal.

I will say this again. The valve spools is the major cause of loader drop. Did you hear that?

Why have none of you made any definitive statement that worn spools is the only way that a loader can drop?

Wording maybe different, but is that not what I have said back in post # 13?


If it stays up for hours, then it is your piston seals that are bad, if it comes down in minutes, as in less than an hour, then your valve is bad.

When I said, hours, then the control valve would have the std amount of leakage that is considered acceptable. If it came down in minutes, then the valve is bad and should be dealt with.

You want to talk about pressure, do you acknowledge that the pressure can change with zero amount of fluid transfer?

Assuming that there is zero external leakage of any kind, with the rod extended, and the cylinder is isolated and is full of fluid, it is impossible for the rod to retract back into the cylinder.

 

[LD1]

Did you not read that article from Prince. I guess not. Then why mark off the cyl rod to see what the leakage rate is?

I am fairly sure if the rod moved, then there was some fluid transfer.

Maybe you need to read the article.

Marking the rod and measuring the drift over a period of time is used to calculate the volume of oil leaking past the SPOOL VALVE

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Did you not read that article from Prince. I guess not. Then why mark off the cyl rod to see what the leakage rate is?

I am fairly sure if the rod moved, then there was some fluid transfer.

The only reason to mark the rod to check for rod movement is if you are checking the rod seals to see if the rod will extend. The rod will extend with bad piston seals, but it will not retract, no way, no how.

I am talking about an isolated cylinder, nothing connected to anything else.

 

[LD1]

You want to talk about pressure, do you acknowledge that the pressure can change with zero amount of fluid transfer?

Assuming that there is zero external leakage of any kind, with the rod extended, and the cylinder is isolated and is full of fluid, it is impossible for the rod to retract back into the cylinder.

Why are such simple concepts so hard for people to understand. There have been many many different people trying to explain this many many different ways. I have no idea what else to do. I think I'd have better luck trying to teach trigonometry to my cat

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Why are such simple concepts so hard for people to understand. There have been many many different people trying to explain this many many different ways. I have no idea what else to do. I think I'd have better luck trying to teach trigonometry to my cat

You know, when I did my video, people said that it was trick photography. I had acknowledged that there was no trickery involved and that I was not the strongest human to ever walk the earth, and as we know, that would not have helped anyway.

A person can only do so much. :confused3:

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Why are such simple concepts so hard for people to understand. There have been many many different people trying to explain this many many different ways. I have no idea what else to do. I think I'd have better luck trying to teach trigonometry to my cat

Have you seen some of the stuff that has been videoed that animals are doing? I am not so sure who is really smarter any more. :confused2:

 

[Egon]

The only reason to mark the rod to check for rod movement is if you are checking the rod seals to see if the rod will extend. The rod will extend with bad piston seals, but it will not retract, no way, no how.

I am talking about an isolated cylinder, nothing connected to anything else.

A duplicate of what has been said!

With the cylinder filled with oil (both sides of piston) and both ports plugged off the the rod can be pulled out but not shoved in. When pulling out the removed rod area is available volume for oil. To push rod in there is no where for rod displaced oil to go.

A cylinder with the rod in holds less oil than when the rod is out.
To extend the rod no piston/seals are required.

on my tractor at full loader height the rod is fully extended. It does drop over time. There are no external leaks. I would assume there is leakage in the control valve.

 

[LD1]

on my tractor at full loader height the rod is fully extended. It does drop over time. There are no external leaks. I would assume there is leakage in the control valve.

Your assumption would be 100% correct.

You can follow the directions "correctly" in the link JJ posted, make a line on the cylinder rod, and measure its rate of descent over a given time. Then using simple math, you can calculate the exact amount of leakage past the spool in a given hour and see if it is still within MFG specs or not.