VW Clean diesels.... how did they get them so clean?

[MikePA]

You claimed they passed the EPA testing. Evading a test and passing a test are not the same thing. This so called "EPA" mode is only active when the vehicle is on the dyno. They are certifying that this is the normal operational state of the vehicle, which they know it is not true. When you say things like the "passed" the test, the inference is that you are defending what they did.

IF that's not what you meant to imply, then what is the point/purpose of claiming they "passed" the EPA tests?

They commiitted an act of fraud. They advertised and sold a vehicle that did not have qualities they claimed it had except under limited circumstances that could not be replicated by any consumer operating the vehicle on the road. And under those conditions, the vehicle did not comply with federal emission laws.

Thank you for admitting to inferring, i.e., I never said it.

If they are lucky, they will only have to reflash their ECMs so they always run in 'EPA Mode'.

 

[sseelhoff]

Thank you for admitting to inferring, i.e., I never said it.

If they are lucky, they will only have to reflash their ECMs so they always run in 'EPA Mode'.

The problem will be when they do that, they lose mileage and performance. Purchasers who bought clean diesel based on the promises clean diesel + high mileage + performance lose 2/3 of the bargain. They're going to want their money back. Or a significant refund of the purchase price. As I stated earlier, this falls clearly under Deceptive Trade practices (advertising that a product has qualities or characteristics that it does not possess, among others.) Owners would get the difference in value between what was promised and what was delivered, treble damages, and attorney's fees. The alternative is to void the contract (fraud in the inducement) and receive a full refund.

Flashing the ECM may be an easy fix. But the situation, in its entiriety, is not an easy fix. Not even close.

And FWIW, after they flashed the ECM, if the mileage loss wasn't too significant, the Golf TDI would be on my short list of vehicles to purchase.

 

[MossRoad]

A chip which produces 'fake' results to fool the tests is not the same as passing a test. If they could pass the EPA requirements there would be no issue, and no need to tweak the data.

You're arguing the wrong point. The chip didn't produce fake results. It produced accurate results. The sniffer in the tailpipe said it was putting out exhaust that met the requirements. You seem to think they cheated the test. They didn't cheat the test. They cheated after the test by turning off the emission devices after the test was over. Yes, VW is guilty.... of turning off the emission controls in the program, not of faking the test. The test can't be faked. They passed the test. They failed morality.

 

[MossRoad]

If they are lucky, they will only have to reflash their ECMs so they always run in 'EPA Mode'.

That's gonna be the first demand the government makes... reflash the chips.

The second is gonna be a fine to the government for each car that is affected.

The last is gonna be a fine to each owner of one of these cars. Maybe a flat fee. Maybe a fee based on mileage. Maybe they'll have to buy the cars back. That'll be interesting to watch.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

You're arguing the wrong point. The chip didn't produce fake results. It produced accurate results. The sniffer in the tailpipe said it was putting out exhaust that met the requirements. You seem to think they cheated the test. They didn't cheat the test. They cheated after the test by turning off the emission devices after the test was over. Yes, VW is guilty.... of turning off the emission controls in the program, not of faking the test. The test can't be faked. They passed the test. They failed morality.

Aren't we arguing semantics here? The basic premise is that they were testing the normal operating mode of the vehicle. Factor in the fact that this mode was NOT the normal operating mode, they were in fact NOT testing what the law required but something else. You can't say that they passed the test, because the were not testing what was required.

 

[zzvyb6]

The EPA test does NOT include operations relevant to real world driving conditions. Low power, start from cold, controlled humidity and temperature, special fuel, mid throttle. To pass an EPA test for real world operations, a diesel engined vehicle must use a dowstream urea injector to catalze the NOX. Some manufacturer's cars aren't even tested. They sign a document that 'certifies' that the cars meet emissions rules (witness testing). Same for brakes, headlights, tire speed ratings and others. I know GM tests it's own vehicles in Milford, having watched many of them run day and night during my 40 years there.

Fixing these cars will require adding the urea injection system hardware, a urea storage tank, monthly urea purchases and fillups, and perhaps loss of your spare tire (no more room for it). Estimated expense = $5,000 to $8,000. The loss of value for resale purposes will be astounding. Question will be who will be paying for this? So much for the cost advantage of a 'green' Diesel.

Phart Fig Newtons.

 

[MossRoad]

Aren't we arguing semantics here? The basic premise is that they were testing the normal operating mode of the vehicle. Factor in the fact that this mode was NOT the normal operating mode, they were in fact NOT testing what the law required but something else. You can't say that they passed the test, because the were not testing what was required.

Yes, it is absolutely semantics. Bottom line is they cheated the laws and consumers. But someone keeps poking folks in the eye with incorrect facts, quite rudely,too.

 

[Coyote machine]

My problem? i go with the facts that have been reported, not speculation by 'Internet Experts'.

If you're saying I claim to be an 'Internet Expert', that is not the case, and the label is made up solely by you.

From USA Today of Sept 18, 2015:The Environmental Protection agency ordered Volkswagen recall a half-million VW and Audi diesel cars Friday, saying the company violated clean air standards by programming on-board computers to produce phony results during emissions testing. (Sept. AP).
Link:EPA: VW Purposely Violated Clean Air Standards

Seems you're blatantly wrong on the facts, but I suppose the FACTS don't figure into your attacks on what I say.
Phony results during emissions testing= NOT passing the test(s) as required by law.
Not passing the required tests, falsifying results by tweaking chips, is breaking the law; especially since VW CHOSE to circumvent the law, on purpose, to defraud the EPA and consumers.
Now you can kiss off.

 

[Coyote machine]

You're arguing the wrong point. The chip didn't produce fake results. It produced accurate results. The sniffer in the tailpipe said it was putting out exhaust that met the requirements. You seem to think they cheated the test. They didn't cheat the test. They cheated after the test by turning off the emission devices after the test was over. Yes, VW is guilty.... of turning off the emission controls in the program, not of faking the test. The test can't be faked. They passed the test. They failed morality.

WRONG! See above post. I didn't make up the article, nor did I record the video statement.
I'm not arguing any point; and if I were it's not the 'wrong one' as you aledge. I'm simply stating facts as reported by USA Today.

VW chose to deceive and has now been caught. They will engage in a battle for their lives with the EPA until the EPA gets whatever they are able to render as a final verdict.
Diesels, consumers, and shareholders will lose out significantly from now far into the future.
What surprises me is that the Germans were so careless to think they could get away with this farce with no blowback. Seems money talks and idiots walk, as usual.

Far-fig-newton

Their cars, including Audis, have never impressed me, and I would not buy one if they were the last manufacturer on Earth.

 

[MossRoad]

The USA Today article is worded incorrectly. VW didn't program the computers to produce phony results during testing. They programmed the computers to operate the emissions systems normally during testing, and at reduced levels when not testing. Read some other articles on it.

What you need to know about the Volkswagen scandal