lots of questions about medium duty trucks.

fourwheelinj1 · Oct 23, 2015

We currently have a 86 ford f700 box bump with a 370 gas, 5 speed with 2 speed rear with hydraulic Lucas Girling brakes that we use to haul dirt, gravel, logs etc.. We also are starting to use the truck to haul our 14k lb backhoe and tractors and bobcat. I am wanting to upgrade to a 16-18k lb mini excavator and I think we need to upgrade the truck too. The 370 has no power and the brakes scare the crap out of me.

After some research it appears that IH makes one of the best medium duty trucks or at least engines anyway with the 466. It seems like the cummins 8.3 are also good engines. The problem I am having is finding one in my price point with 250k miles on it. We don't use the truck very much so it sits 320 days a year, but when I need it I want to be able to go to the quarry or haul logs to the mill and not worry about not making it or the brakes not stopping me. Ideally i think i would want a IH 466 with air brakes and a 6 or 7 speed trans. Reality is setting in and I don't think I am going to find that for under $10k without 250k miles on it. So here are my questions.

How many miles/ hours on this size truck before they generally start having a lot of expensive problems. I know the engines can handle 200-300k miles ok but what about the rest?

I know I want diesel for the power and fuel economy, but which ones are powerful enough to haul 7-8 tons or tow 20-25k lbs without breaking the bank?

I am normally a manual trans guy on big trucks because that is all I have ever had, but are the automatics in this class truck reliable and up to the task?

Brakes, we have ford Lucas Girling hydraulic brakes and they suck. Are air brakes a must for safely hauling the above mentioned weights?

If I am going to tow 20-25k pounds including the trailer weight are electric trailer brakes ok or would air trailer brakes be much better?

Last question. I found a 92 IH with DT360 and automatic trans close by for a reasonable price. I am not familiar with the DT360. Will it mated with an auto be up to the task?

aczlan · Oct 23, 2015

IIRC, airbrakes are considered to be much better than hydraulic brakes and the same for an air brake trailer (vs an electric brake trailer).
You can also sometimes get deals on an airbrake trailer as many people don't have the ability to tow them.
The downside is that you might need to add an airbrake endorsement to your license.

Aaron Z

4570Man · Oct 23, 2015

I like diesel trucks as much as anyone, but you can get a gas way cheaper. Around here a comparable gas truck probably cost 1/3 what the diesel does.

fourwheelinj1 · Oct 23, 2015

Well we have a gas truck now and anything over about 5 tons and it really can't pull hills anymore. Also the 5 miles per gallon or so really sucks also. I don't think the gasser is going to be able to tow the 20k pound load very well.

tlj87 · Oct 23, 2015

The most highly regarded IH/Navistar medium duty engines from the late 80s to mid 90s would be the DT360, DT408 and DT466. I think there is also a DT530, but I'm not as familiar with it. These are all inline 6 cyl. Next would be the DT466E, available until the mid 2000s. If looking at auto transmissions, definitely go for a Allison MT643 or its replacement, the MD3060.

crashz · Oct 23, 2015

Look close at the specs of the trucks. I'm mildly familiar with the IH 4700 series and these can be found in a bunch of GVWRs. I looked at one with hydraulic brakes, 466 and Allison auto that was rated at 25K. My father owns one with a 466, auto, air brakes and it has a GVWR of 31K.

They are great trucks, can pull your load, and may be capable (depending on equipment) of hauling 8 tons. Just need to find the right one.

PS - floor rust, rockers and door rust seem common on these here in the northeast.

Diamondpilot · Oct 23, 2015

4570Man said:
I like diesel trucks as much as anyone, but you can get a gas way cheaper. Around here a comparable gas truck probably cost 1/3 what the diesel does.

I agree. We do all the above with a F700 Ford and a gas 491. It has a10' Meyer plow all for $3700.

Chris

4570Man · Oct 23, 2015

My Grandpa has a old international forestry fire truck. It has a 5 speed transmission with a two speed transfer case. It is gas, and capable of hauling a 3,000 gallon water tank plus the pumps and other gear. I know the milage of a gas truck this size is terrible, but it will take a Long time to make up the purchase price difference being parked 320 days a year.

firemech · Oct 23, 2015

Would also reccomend the International 4700 with the DT 466. Our fire department has one with a 6 speed and air brakes under a 1800 gallon tanker body; an ex Penske rental chassis with 560,000 km (over 300,000 miles) and the unit works flawlessly with lots of power. Tranny is getting sloppy but we are extremely happy with the package.

RedNeckRacin · Oct 23, 2015

Screw those crappy gas motors!!! Get a diesel 466, 466e, or 530e and don't think twice. For the weights you are talking about you are going to want the torque.

RUN away from the dt360, vt365, or dt408. They aren't big enough. Personally I would be looking for at least 250hp. I would also be looking for a standard OR a MD3060 Allison. Those Mt transmissions don't have over drive and IIRC they don't lock up the torque converter.

I have a 2001 4700 with a dt530e and an Allison md3060 that we drag around a 20klb horse trailer or my gn and tractor. I have the 8k front axle and a 17k rear. I have never come close to over loading that truck. I would suggest air brakes if you can get them though. Also, I have air ride and it is fantastic when loaded!!

If you have any questions about the truck I'll do my best to answer. These trucks blow a pickup completely out of the water. They make one ton trucks look like children's toys. I can out maneuver duallies easily since the truck turns tighter.