What makes a service bulletin different than a recall?

[Capricious]

"..don't pull text from what I've said without proper acknowledgement, and out of context...."


I address particular statements, I properly quote the statement I am addressing, and if you don't like the way I quote your statements, well, I don't really care.

And a money judgement, for an unpaid debt, certainly WILL show up in your credit report.

Putting a credit card charge into dispute is not a final outcome; it is the beginning of a process. A process the OP would lose, based upon his statements, and following your
dubious advice.

 

[Capricious]

Once the consumer decides to go the arbitration route... a list of 5 arbitrators is provided with a brief bio and each party is asked to rank 1 to 5 in order of preference... first called is the arbitrator having the same rank by both parties... so if you and manufacturer both rank a person number 3 that will be the person asked... of course it also depends on availability... at least this is my California experience.

GM arbitration is really swayed towards the consumer because the consumer is free to accept or reject the decision... the manufacturer does not have this option... also, it is provided at no cost.

Arbitrators I know are extremely fair and will allow each side to make their presentation in full as long it is not a rehash of what has already been said.

The last thing I want is for either party to walk away from a hearing and say/feel they were not allowed to present their case in full or were stopped short.

Some cases are heard by a panel... usually consisting of 3.

The point is that the OP's dispute is with the manufacturer, not the dealer.

The dealer (apparently) made it known up-front that the repair would be for the customer's account, and not a warranty repair.

The OP may seek redress from the manufacturer, but simply refusing to pay the dealer is not an option.

The dealer and the manufacturer are two separate entities. To suggest that not paying one, when the other
may (or may not) be the responsible party, is a recipe for legal trouble.

I have less faith in the arbitration process than you do, but if the OP wants to try to gain reimbursement for
his expense, that is the route he has to take.

 

[Coyote machine]

"..don't pull text from what I've said without proper acknowledgement, and out of context...."


I address particular statements, I properly quote the statement I am addressing, and if you don't like the way I quote your statements, well, I don't really care.

And a money judgement, for an unpaid debt, certainly WILL show up in your credit report.

Putting a credit card charge into dispute is not a final outcome; it is the beginning of a process. A process the OP would lose, based upon his statements, and following your
dubious advice.

The reply with quote button at the bottom right of any post is the proper way to quote someone on these boards. You're not quoting someone if the author is not acknowledged - but who would expect you to know something as simple as that?

You assume the CC dispute would be lost, for which you have no credible reason to conclude that halfbaked wrongheaded answer. My advice isn't dubious, because the person who actually paid the dealer for the work has the choice of filing a dispute, whether the outcome is favorable to them or not.

You can argue this for the rest of time- it won't convince me of anything, except that you just don't get it, on any level.

 

[Capricious]

The reply with quote button at the bottom right of any post is the proper way to quote someone on these boards. You're not quoting someone if the author is not acknowledged - but who would expect you to know something as simple as that?

You assume the CC dispute would be lost, for which you have no credible reason to conclude that halfbaked wrongheaded answer. My advice isn't dubious, because the person who actually paid the dealer for the work has the choice of filing a dispute, whether the outcome is favorable to them or not.

You can argue this for the rest of time- it won't convince me of anything, except that you just don't get it, on any level.

I will refrain, for the moment, from personally insulting you, as you have me.

In reviewing your full resume, posted in message #26, I note a lack of any mention of any legal experience of any description, yet you persist in dispensing legal advice.

Not only would the dispute be lost, it would not even make to trial. The plaintiff (creditor) would move for summary judgment, and the judge would concur.

Court costs taxed to defendant.

 

[Coyote machine]

I will refrain, for the moment, from personally insulting you, as you have me.

In reviewing your full resume, posted in message #26, I note a lack of any mention of any legal experience of any description, yet you persist in dispensing legal advice.

Not only would the dispute be lost, it would not even make to trial. The plaintiff (creditor) would move for summary judgment, and the judge would concur.

Court costs taxed to defendant.

CC disputes don't end in court. They are settled when the arbitrator(s) decide the outcome. I haven't posted a resume, but I could, if I chose to do so. Why can't you grasp that the dealer was paid by crashz? So no fraud is involved, and the consumer has the right to chose to dispute the charge, whether you like it, approve of it or not. End of story, out come unknown. End trans. Move on.

 

[ultrarunner]

The point is that the OP's dispute is with the manufacturer, not the dealer.

The dealer (apparently) made it known up-front that the repair would be for the customer's account, and not a warranty repair.

The OP may seek redress from the manufacturer, but simply refusing to pay the dealer is not an option.

The dealer and the manufacturer are two separate entities. To suggest that not paying one, when the other
may (or may not) be the responsible party, is a recipe for legal trouble.

I have less faith in the arbitration process than you do, but if the OP wants to try to gain reimbursement for
his expense, that is the route he has to take.

As long as the consumer is free to accept or reject the decision I can't think of a reason not to consider Alternative Dispute Resolution... manufacturers such as GM have committed to the ADR process... it is less expensive, private and does not set precedent as would a formal court proceeding.

 

[ModMech]

Back at the ranch......

The OP's question was regarding TSB vs Recall and the answer is the Government.

It's very simple, a vehicle Recall is published in response to a safety defect and is administered by the government, but paid for by the manufacturer. Most, if not all, OEMs have non-recall activities that accomplish the same goals but do not involve the government. Such actions are often called "Customer Satisfaction" type repairs and in other cases are simply an extension of warranty coverage for a part that has a higher than normal failure rate.

A Bulletin is nothing more than an updated repair procedure (part number, tq specification, procedure) to address some change in the official service or diagnostic manual. Many consumers wrongfully assume that because there is a bulletin, there is a "defect" in the vehicle. The term defect means certain things to certain people and often something completely different in court. What one owner considers a defect, may or may not, meet the legal definition of same (Federally or in your respective State).

One classic example of a true defect that has not resulted in a Recall is the Ford "LCM" in the early 2000's. The issue is that the lights, including Head Lights, on certain vehicles are essentially computer controlled. If the computer (or any sub component) were to fail in a specific manner, the headlamps become inoperative. This is obviously a serious issue driving on the highway at night, no Recall has ever been required, but Ford did the right thing and extended coverage for the affected vehicles to well past their normal service life.

Truly, EVERY part on a vehicle will eventually fail, every last one. That does not make ANY of them defective, stuff wears out.... ALL stuff.

Another important thing to keep in mind, the Dealer is not owned nor controlled by the OEM. Getting mad at the dealer for an issue that occurred in the design, manufacturing or assembly of your vehicle is pointless; they didn't do it.

 

[phiferpharm]

Back at the ranch......

Another important thing to keep in mind, the Dealer is not owned nor controlled by the OEM. Getting mad at the dealer for an issue that occurred in the design, manufacturing or assembly of your vehicle is pointless; they didn't do it.

Yup, it's not their fault, but charging $400.00 for a repair my local mechanic says should run well under $200.00 is. I'll know later today when I get the truck back. If nothing else, this reminded me that it's kind of silly to have repairs made at a dealer in some (if not many) situations.

 

[Capricious]

"...CC disputes don't end in court. They are settled when the arbitrator(s) decide the outcome. I haven't posted a resume, but I could, if I chose to do so. Why can't you grasp that the dealer was paid by crashz? So no fraud is involved, and the consumer has the right to chose to dispute the charge, whether you like it, approve of it or not. End of story, out come unknown. End trans. Move on..."


Why can't you grasp that YOU instructed the OP to dispute the charge, denying the dealer payment?

Why can't you grasp that unpaid debts end up in judgments and garnishments and attached assets?
Taken to court for card debt? What to expect


Why can't you grasp that the dealer does NOT determine what the manufacturer will cover under a warranty? The MANUFACTURER determines what it will cover.

The outcome of the dispute with GM is unknown: the outcome of not paying the dealer is very predictable, so it IS known.

Talk about dense...

 

[Coyote machine]

First, it's NOT a cc debt, it's a paid and disputed charge against the card, a legal means of resolving disagreements between a merchant and credit card holder. It doesn't deny anything to the dealer, it allows for resolution of a dispute between merchant and retail customer.

It doesn't matter what the manufacturer decided to cover under warranty, the point of sale, where the work/parts etc. were performed is at the dealer. There's no dispute with a general manager.

Crashz is not the OP in this thread, just someone who posted their laments, which I gave my opinion to as to what I would do in their situation. You don't like my advice- that's fine, so don't take it.

This link is one of many addressing the way to dispute a charge with a merchant, which addresses the actual issue, not credit card debt- DUH!

How To Dispute A Credit Card Charge