Diverter Sanity Check

[avc8130]

This brings me to a new question: will I be able to use a snow plow with this setup?

ac

 

[kennyd]

For me...Pushing the joystick right opens the grapple. My "brain logic" is push away, dump, open, let go. Moving the joystick left is curl, pull in, hold.

On most Kub's, regen is active at the first part of of joystick travel (to the right) so you have to push past that to get out of regen, I do not know if you machine is like that however. John Deere's is opposite-regen active at the furthest position.

I would try to figure this out first, then we can discuss a HPHD-but if regen is active all the time, I don't think its going to work.

 

[avc8130]

For me...Pushing the joystick right opens the grapple. My "brain logic" is push away, dump, open, let go. Moving the joystick left is curl, pull in, hold.

On most Kub's, regen is active at the first part of of joystick travel (to the right) so you have to push past that to get out of regen, I do not know if you machine is like that however. John Deere's is opposite-regen active at the furthest position.

I would try to figure this out first, then we can discuss a HPHD-but if regen is active all the time, I don't think its going to work.

That's how I wanted it. That way when curling you could instantly switch to gripping. Seems to make sense when grabbing brush. When I used the grapple last it just seemed backwards the whole time with my hand constantly swinging back and forth. As it is now, right closes the grapple. I guess I could look into flipping the hydraulic cylinders. I'd lose a bit of the close force, but at least it would work in the right direction.

How would I find out how the regen works on my machine?

What is HPHD?

ac

 

[kennyd]

How would I find out how the regen works on my machine?

Perhaps ask the dealer? Owners manual? Shop manual? It's also referred to as "fast dump", that may help.

What is HPHD?

Hydraulic Post Hole Digger, sorry!

 

[avc8130]

Perhaps ask the dealer? Owners manual? Shop manual? It's also referred to as "fast dump", that may help.



Hydraulic Post Hole Digger, sorry!

Shop Manual! Duh!

Googling is coming up empty, but realistically my loader valve doesn't have a detent to the right I can feel so I'm pretty sure this isn't looking good :-(.

ac

 

[Xfaxman]

That's how I wanted it. That way when curling you could instantly switch to gripping. Seems to make sense when grabbing brush. When I used the grapple last it just seemed backwards the whole time with my hand constantly swinging back and forth. As it is now, right closes the grapple. I guess I could look into flipping the hydraulic cylinders. I'd lose a bit of the close force, but at least it would work in the right direction.

------------------------

ac

I think you only have to swap hoses from the cylinders to reverse the direction of operation.

 

[avc8130]

This isn't looking good:



I guess I'm pretty much SOL on this thing. I wish I knew (and UNDERSTOOD) about this regen thing before I went down this endeavor. I would have never done a diverter on this machine. Now I'm debating ripping the whole thing off and starting over with a 3rd function valve.

ac

 

[lennyzx11]

This isn't looking good:



I guess I'm pretty much SOL on this thing. I wish I knew (and UNDERSTOOD) about this regen thing before I went down this endeavor. I would have never done a diverter on this machine. Now I'm debating ripping the whole thing off and starting over with a 3rd function valve.

ac

I'm working my way through installing one on a Kubota L3301 now. Can you possibly save it by using the lift circuit as the feed instead of the curl circuit?
That's what I plan on doing per advice here.
Lenny

 

[avc8130]

I'm working my way through installing one on a Kubota L3301 now. Can you possibly save it by using the lift circuit as the feed instead of the curl circuit?
That's what I plan on doing per advice here.
Lenny

Lenny,

The lift circuit should work. I plan to try living with it as is for now. I think I can get used to the grapple operating backwards just as easily as getting used it it operating forward/backward on the stick. I picked up a snowplow this evening that uses a single DA cylinder on the left side. If my brain logic is working properly this should work just fine with the setup as is. Right on the stick should be angle right. I'll know tomorrow when I get a chance to unload it from the truck, swap quick connectors and hook it up.

ac

 

[avc8130]

Lenny,

The lift circuit should work. I plan to try living with it as is for now. I think I can get used to the grapple operating backwards just as easily as getting used it it operating forward/backward on the stick. I picked up a snowplow this evening that uses a single DA cylinder on the left side. If my brain logic is working properly this should work just fine with the setup as is. Right on the stick should be angle right. I'll know tomorrow when I get a chance to unload it from the truck, swap quick connectors and hook it up.

ac

Look at me quoting my own post.

So I picked up the snowplow as described. Technically it "works". Diverter button down, left is left right is right. However, right takes an eternity. This makes sense as this is the direction that the cylinder is fighting itself.

I'm going to keep it as is, but I foresee myself swapping this diverter to the lift circuit or abandoning the whole thing and going true 3rd in the long run. Overall I'm pretty disappointed with this lesson.

ac

 

[Fallon]

Look at me quoting my own post.

So I picked up the snowplow as described. Technically it "works". Diverter button down, left is left right is right. However, right takes an eternity. This makes sense as this is the direction that the cylinder is fighting itself.

I'm going to keep it as is, but I foresee myself swapping this diverter to the lift circuit or abandoning the whole thing and going true 3rd in the long run. Overall I'm pretty disappointed with this lesson.

ac

Learning is priceless. And you shouldn't be out to much, you can reuse most of that setup except for some fittings, maybe some hoses when you move over to the lift circuit. Lord knows I've made more expensive learning opportunities in my career & hobbies.

 

[avc8130]

Learning is priceless. And you shouldn't be out to much, you can reuse most of that setup except for some fittings, maybe some hoses when you move over to the lift circuit. Lord knows I've made more expensive learning opportunities in my career & hobbies.

Pretty much. I'll do my best to share my experience with others considering a similar setup. I'm sure in the long run I'll be happy and it will work out. I need to look into what it would take to swap to the lift circuit. I think the motion would make sense for the grapple with forward to close. The plow would be a bit silly but I'm sure I'd adapt fast enough.

 

[avc8130]

I used the diverter more today with the Grapple and I'm starting to wonder: Is the regen dump (grapple close) circuit just as powerful as the non-regen curl (grapple open)? My grapple "works", but I'm not sure it has the closing/pinching force it should.

ac

 

[Fallon]

Regen connects both ports on a cylinder. That way fluid from the rod side can go to the cylinder side when the bucket & load are essentially pulling the bucket down really fast on their own. Otherwise loose seals would let in air. As the cylinder side surface area is greater than the rod side (rod side has a rod on it taking up space) the greater surface area lets the cylinder side overpower the rod side. Faster movement with significantly less power is the net result.

I'm assuming your grapple cylinder would be extending to close, which would be affected by regen rather than opening. I'd assume fast (regen) open would be kind of beneficial as I can't think when you'd need a strong open, but you would obviously want a strong close.

 

[FredH]

Not Sure how You Feel about OEM Look , But rather than swap out or remove everything , What about a After market Single Joystick or even 2 or 3 Joystick Loader Valve ? After putting in the time , Money You have in this project , I Would Ditch the " Look " and get a loader valve that fits My needs .

Thinking something like this :

3 SPOOL 25 GPM JOYSTICK LOADER VALVE W/GRAPPLE

Just My :2cents:

Fred H.

 

[avc8130]

Not Sure how You Feel about OEM Look , But rather than swap out or remove everything , What about a After market Single Joystick or even 2 or 3 Joystick Loader Valve ? After putting in the time , Money You have in this project , I Would Ditch the " Look " and get a loader valve that fits My needs .

Thinking something like this :

3 SPOOL 25 GPM JOYSTICK LOADER VALVE W/GRAPPLE

Just My :2cents:

Fred H.

Fred,

There's just now way on earth that monstrosity would integrate even remotely nicely to my machine.

I'd sooner just convert what I have to a true 3rd function.

ac

 

[avc8130]

Regen connects both ports on a cylinder. That way fluid from the rod side can go to the cylinder side when the bucket & load are essentially pulling the bucket down really fast on their own. Otherwise loose seals would let in air. As the cylinder side surface area is greater than the rod side (rod side has a rod on it taking up space) the greater surface area lets the cylinder side overpower the rod side. Faster movement with significantly less power is the net result.

I'm assuming your grapple cylinder would be extending to close, which would be affected by regen rather than opening. I'd assume fast (regen) open would be kind of beneficial as I can't think when you'd need a strong open, but you would obviously want a strong close.

That's where my confusion lies. There is nothing fast about how anything operates in the dump (regen) direction on the diverter. The grapple closes pretty slowly and seems like it has little clamping power. The snow plow angles right super S L O W L Y.

ac

 

[aeblank]

during your lever-right, push past the first detent, then it's the same pressure/force as lever-left.
In the first lever-right detent, you are applying pressure to both sides of the cylinder. One side of the cylinder has a bigger area, so more force, so it'll move. However, if you push farther right, you will only have pressure on one side of the cylinder (the same yet opposite of lever-left).

 

[aeblank]

during your lever-right, push past the first detent, then it's the same pressure/force as lever-left.
In the first lever-right detent, you are applying pressure to both sides of the cylinder. One side of the cylinder has a bigger area, so more force, so it'll move. However, if you push farther right, you will only have pressure on one side of the cylinder (the same yet opposite of lever-left).

 

[avc8130]

during your lever-right, push past the first detent, then it's the same pressure/force as lever-left.
In the first lever-right detent, you are applying pressure to both sides of the cylinder. One side of the cylinder has a bigger area, so more force, so it'll move. However, if you push farther right, you will only have pressure on one side of the cylinder (the same yet opposite of lever-left).

That'd be nice, if my loader valve was that style. No detents here. Always regen.

ac