Trenching for Utilities...

[ultrarunner]

Both times the I lost a leg of power PSE came out and found the break and did a repair splice.

I was in California and found out after all was said and done... 2007 and 2012.

The last time PSE told the customer/tenant the direct burial line was at the end of life... it's 40 years old and PSE said they no longer install or maybe PSE meant direct burial?

The meter is on the house and the small pad mounted transformer is about 20 feet away and about 500 more to the pole... all underground... I'm the only one underground and the newest home by a longshot... the transformer is very small... I was surprised at how small it is... home is all electric with two water heaters and two furnaces with supplemental wood heating.

First time the tenants thought the refrigerator died and then noticed other things not working... lost a leg.

The last time the lights were flickering and bulbs burning out... tenant said the ground was sizzling at the break location.

Everything I deal with in California is overhead... no underground... just this one in Thurston County.

Thinking on a ride on trencher about 3 feet inside my property line and then a sweep towards the house...

The water line is just my idea for convenience... it can get dry a few weeks every July and dragging a couple of hundred feet of garden hose gets old.

No idea as to voltage to the transformer... I am at the end of the run distance wise... so whatever happens only effects me.

Anywhere I dig other than the gravel drive would be through the forest duff...

 

[grsthegreat]

Yeiks. If your talking about the high voltage side of the transformer, thats a whole other thing. The utilities use a special conductor to run the high voltage side, and they usually require the electrical to be buried 36" deep with no other utilities in same trench. I thought you were talking about the secondary side of the transformer (that portion feeding your house after the transformer). Ive never had a public utility ask a homeowner to supply the primary side, much less to install that. Thats always been on their end. If its reached its life, its on there nickle up here.

 

[ultrarunner]

Good to know... everything to the meter weatherhead has always been my experience and I've done a fair amount of service upgrades in California... lots of older homes dating from the 20's and 30's...

Should I be pro-active with PSE or just wait for the next break which may never come?

The transformer just sits in the landscaped area with lots of ivy around it... not much bigger than an industrial battery if I remember correctly... strange to see it just out in the open.

The transformers I have at the hospital all have fenced and locked enclosures and all wire is underground.

I thinking I need to verify where the primary runs... was supposed to get plans and they could not be found...

 

[davesl708]

Ultrarunner, You may have covered this before but why is satellite internet not an option? Trenching 500' 3ft wide is going to be a large project, time consuming and expensive. Not to mention the mound of dirt 3ft high you have to settle, re-compact and replant.

 

[TheSpoon]

Ultrarunner, You may have covered this before but why is satellite internet not an option? Trenching 500' 3ft wide is going to be a large project, time consuming and expensive. Not to mention the mound of dirt 3ft high you have to settle, re-compact and replant.

I can't speak for Ultrarunner exactly, but generally, satellite is quite expensive for much much slower speeds. Last time I dismissed it, the cost was 2-3 times the price (about $100 for only Internet) and about 700kB (about 6 times slower).

Now, if your mean DSL, which often gets bundled with satellite TV, well, that comes in on phone lines and I'd assume he would still need to trench.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I don't know about your state, but here and everywhere else I have lived, the power company owns and maintains up to the transformer. At my house here in Arkansas, the power company will run for free overhead lines to the meter if you want. If you want underground lines then you have to pay to have them installed. I found that the power company had the cheapest rates for wire so I had them pull the wire in. I had my house contractor dig a trench and install the size conduit (plastic) that the power company required. Power company wanted $5 per foot to dig the trench and install the conduit which was about 120' in length but my building contractor did it for free then power company pulled the wire and terminated it at the meter. They furnished, pulled and installed the wire cheaper than I could have purchased the wire. They would have still had to do the termination at each end even if I had installed the wire in the conduit leaving the required pigtail length at each end.

One thing to remember is that data lines (internet) need to be at least 12" from any high voltage line to prevent interference. I have never seen anything in Code that prevents water line from running in the same trench as electrical.
The only issue with doing that is if you have to repair the water line, you will have to hand dig and be very careful that you don't cut into the electrical. With water line repair where I know there is nothing but water, I just dig with the backhoe till I hit the line then dig the hole big enough to fix the damage, don't want to do that with electrical in the same hole.
If your winter temps are such that you can put the water line a foot or more above the electrical then you would be ok to do that. 3 feet or more for the electrical and then 12-18" deep for the water. Here I can get by with 12" and have no freezing issues.

 

[davesl708]

I can't speak for Ultrarunner exactly, but generally, satellite is quite expensive for much much slower speeds. Last time I dismissed it, the cost was 2-3 times the price (about $100 for only Internet) and about 700kB (about 6 times slower).

Now, if your mean DSL, which often gets bundled with satellite TV, well, that comes in on phone lines and I'd assume he would still need to trench.

This is what I found on the internet for satellite internet service.

#1 – HughesNet

HughesNet has been in business for over 30 years and has over 2.5 million customers across 100 countries. HughesNet’s monthly download capacity ranges from 20GB to 40GB. Bonus data is available between the hours of 2am to 8am. HughesNet offers generous download speeds and monthly bandwidth capacity when compared to the competition. They include a free standard installation from one of their authorized professional installers.

HughesNet offers 24×7 technical support to their customers via phone, chat and email. They also provide instructions to walk you through various technical issues via their system control center available on their website.

Advantages
Up to 15 Mbps Download
Up to 20GB Anytime + 20Gbps Bonus per month
Pricing
Starting at $39.99
Free Standard Installation

Granted not the fastest but trenching and burying conduit can buy a lot of satellite service.
I used to use DSL, it was ok at the time not sure where it is now but ATT is offering gigabit service here over existing lines.
My son uses his 4LGT phone as a hot spot for his internet. Doesn't use it a lot but still an option.

 

[ultrarunner]

The geography makes it a cell free zone... no cell service.

DSL isn't available as it is too far out in the county.

There is no TV reception over the air.

Satellite has been there before... Tenant got a quote for HD Satellite and provider said it was not possible unless a number of trees came out... I had already paid $3,800 to have trees removed for regular Satellite over the years.... HD would mean a $11,000 in added tree removal costs.

All the neighbors had Comcast via utility poles... some of the homes go back to the 1920's... my home is the newest dating from 1977 and has underground utilities.

Power Company was paid to do the underground install of power in 1977... they used direct burial and now that line is showing it's age.

My only thought was IF I was going to trench... get the most bang for the buck... make a provision for a spare conduit for power... although this might not be feasible as the power is high voltage to a small pad mounted transformer.

What makes it all kind of ironic is I'm only 10 minutes from the steps of the State Capital in Olympia Washington...

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Ultra, so far you seem to be getting valid info from all us rocking chair experts.

OK guys, I found it. Underground power and communications is goverened by the rules in the National Electrical Safety Code published by the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers. It is the industry accepted standard by utility companies and Authorities Having Jurisdiction. Mine is an old 2002 version left over from when I was a planner for the Navy and then as a Contractor Quality Control manager on Military construction. The language leaves a lot of things up to designers and cooperation between installers/utilities. There is language about separation of utilities and induced interference in communication systems. Too technical to deal with in this forum. 2012 is the latest edition and available on Amazon for a substitute for "counting sheep".

Thurston County area; I would bet that the Primary is 12,470 primary volts. That is the most common voltage until you get out away from civilization and they still have old systems. Power companies have pretty well standardized on 12470 as the transformers are cheaper and lend to several voltages and configurations. It is nasty when a backhoe hits it and shorts across phases. I have seen part of the bucket destroyed.

TRIVIA; old Navy bases had 4800 V Delta distribution but the transformers still work on 12470 Y.

 

[ultrarunner]

Thanks Seabee...

Do you have underground electric from PSE?

Any thoughts how PSE handles a situation where the direct bury line they installed goes bad after 40 years?

So far they have made repairs twice I know of without cost.

If I have the chance, I still plan on adding a couple of smaller spare conduits for intercom/hose bib/security... no reason to add a 120 line as there is already one there for the gate.

I will plan NOT to run primary voltage in my Comcast trench.

Also thinking it would be good to know exactly where this 12,470 volt buried line runs...

I would hate to dig into it!!!