pipe welding

   / pipe welding #11  
Are you saying 1/8" gap or 1/8"filler as Shield arc suggested? And Tig the entire joint?
Tack up using the 1/8" rod as a gapping tool(bend in a "u"shape.)
As you finish the tacks the joint will shrink slightly giving a perfect gap for 1/8" filler wire.Yes I would "Tig" all the way out,it's only 2-1/2" pipe.
I have done thousands of joints like this over the years,some 100% X-Ray.When you start to weld up if you have everything right you will see a "fish eye",tells you that you have perfect penetration.
 
   / pipe welding #12  
All advice is OK if you plan to roll it out. If done in position using an 1/8" rod, you will need to tack up with a larger than 1/8" rod because you have to insert your rod inside the pipe on the bottom and use the rod to hold the puddle up. I would use a 5/32" gap for 2" pipe and for 6" and above you may need to go to 3/16" gap. I have had to use 1/4" gap on 24" and larger and still sometimes have to use a grinder to open up the gap a bit on top. Otherwise you will have a concaved root pass. This is OK for homebrew welding but it wont pass XRAY.

I think a 1/8" gap is fine for TIG on 2" pipe if you can quarter weld it while always having the weld area on the top quarter. You may need to go to a 3/32" filler rod for the last quarter since the gap will be getting pretty small by that time.
 
   / pipe welding
  • Thread Starter
#13  
Tack up using the 1/8" rod as a gapping tool(bend in a "u"shape.)
As you finish the tacks the joint will shrink slightly giving a perfect gap for 1/8" filler wire.Yes I would "Tig" all the way out,it's only 2-1/2" pipe.
I have done thousands of joints like this over the years,some 100% X-Ray.When you start to weld up if you have everything right you will see a "fish eye",tells you that you have perfect penetration.

Thanks for the tips nybirdman, I know I am rusty at this. Most of my Tig experience is on aluminum. I figure on doing some refresher welding on 3/16" flat bar beveled and open root before I start this. Four of my joints will be 1-1/2" pipe. Many years ago I gas welded pipe and that all looked good. Changing the heat source to something that won"t spit once in awhile should be a big plus.
Where I worked we had a crew come in and weld maybe 1-1/2 " stainless pipe maybe schedule 20 for a 1200 PSI line. That welder did not gap the pipe. It was a tight butt weld with argon purge. I asked him how he got 100% penetration and he said he watched for a fish eye. Could I ask a dumb question, and say what is a fish eye. Or is it too hard to explain?
 
   / pipe welding
  • Thread Starter
#14  
All advice is OK if you plan to roll it out. If done in position using an 1/8" rod, you will need to tack up with a larger than 1/8" rod because you have to insert your rod inside the pipe on the bottom and use the rod to hold the puddle up. I would use a 5/32" gap for 2" pipe and for 6" and above you may need to go to 3/16" gap. I have had to use 1/4" gap on 24" and larger and still sometimes have to use a grinder to open up the gap a bit on top. Otherwise you will have a concaved root pass. This is OK for homebrew welding but it wont pass XRAY.

I think a 1/8" gap is fine for TIG on 2" pipe if you can quarter weld it while always having the weld area on the top quarter. You may need to go to a 3/32" filler rod for the last quarter since the gap will be getting pretty small by that time.

All this welding will be on the bench. I will be able to position it any way I want. Thanks
 
   / pipe welding #15  
Never had much luck with x-ray on anything without a decent gap. Especially when welding in place on the bottom portion. 6G position with TIG, the gap was critical as need to insert rod through gap and actually "hold" the puddle up with the filler rod so stringer bead did not sag and be below flush. The fish eye you are referring to I suppose is the same thing we called a "keyhole" when running stringer bead on alloys like chrome, inconel, monel and titanium pipe. Basically, you hold the torch where the arc is breaking down the bevels on each side and the rod is fed above this "keyhole" opening whild the weld filler metal flows off of the rod, around the "keyhole" and deposited on the backside of the "keyhole". If you feed too much filler, the "keyhole" closes up and the bevel stops breaking down. Only solution is to stop and grind the gap back open. Stick welding 6G can use tighter gap and when heat set right, pretty much all the "fire" is on the inside of the pipe on stringer bead. Sometimes, TIGing sch 5 stainless, when we could roll them out, would fit tight with minimal land on the bevel and could fuse the joint dragging a 3/32 rod for filler ahead of the puddle allowing just enough extra metal to flow off the end of the rod to flush it out before running a cap. Always use argon purge on alloys or inside of stringer will "sugar". Different metals have different weld characteristics and need different techniques to make x-ray quality welds. Hope this helped a little.
 
   / pipe welding
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Never had much luck with x-ray on anything without a decent gap. Especially when welding in place on the bottom portion. 6G position with TIG, the gap was critical as need to insert rod through gap and actually "hold" the puddle up with the filler rod so stringer bead did not sag and be below flush. The fish eye you are referring to I suppose is the same thing we called a "keyhole" when running stringer bead on alloys like chrome, inconel, monel and titanium pipe. Basically, you hold the torch where the arc is breaking down the bevels on each side and the rod is fed above this "keyhole" opening whild the weld filler metal flows off of the rod, around the "keyhole" and deposited on the backside of the "keyhole". If you feed too much filler, the "keyhole" closes up and the bevel stops breaking down. Only solution is to stop and grind the gap back open. Stick welding 6G can use tighter gap and when heat set right, pretty much all the "fire" is on the inside of the pipe on stringer bead. Sometimes, TIGing sch 5 stainless, when we could roll them out, would fit tight with minimal land on the bevel and could fuse the joint dragging a 3/32 rod for filler ahead of the puddle allowing just enough extra metal to flow off the end of the rod to flush it out before running a cap. Always use argon purge on alloys or inside of stringer will "sugar". Different metals have different weld characteristics and need different techniques to make x-ray quality welds. Hope this helped a little.

Yes you helped, I did not know fish eye and key hole were one and the same. I had always used the term key hole and thought fish eye was something in the puddle itself. And I never saw any difference in the puddle so I had to ask. Thanks
 
   / pipe welding #17  
Yes you helped, I did not know fish eye and key hole were one and the same. I had always used the term key hole and thought fish eye was something in the puddle itself. And I never saw any difference in the puddle so I had to ask. Thanks
Fish eye and keyhole are note the same.
 
   / pipe welding
  • Thread Starter
#18  
Fish eye and keyhole are note the same.

Did you make a typo? you have NOTE the same. If they are not the same would you be willing to explain the difference, or what is fish eye/
 
   / pipe welding #19  
the keyhole is the burning out of the bevel in a round (keyhole) shape. You usually keyhole with stick welding. When you see the keyhole forming on the root pass with usually 6010 rod, you are assured that your penetrating the bevel and land into the ID of the pipe.
The fisheye happens with tig welding. It is a defect, usually a small hole or crator that formed by pulling out of the puddle too quickly, rapid cooling of the molten puddle. This can be fixed by using a foot pedal, or running the puddle out of the weld zone and extinguishing it there.
 
   / pipe welding #20  
I am not a TIG welder but have been around a lot of it and worked as a fitter for TIG welders on SS and other special alloys. In my younger pipefitter days I was a certified ASME pressure piping and pressure vessel welder using both O/A and manual arc. We never saw any advantage to TIG welding mild steel. For production work it is too slow. Up to 4" schd 80 pipe O/A was a one pass weld and arc it was 3 passes for butt welds. I could run circles around arc welders using O/A on pipe up to 4". Socket weld fittings were a PIA with O/A. Over 4" it can be done but it is too hot for me and was a 2 pass job. There were times though when we did O/A on large pipe when it was not feasible to set up for arc on a couple joints. One time I was required to O/A 6 and 8" vertical runs every 10' for 4 stories in position; all horizontal welds which are the hardest position to control the puddle, especially with a #6 Victor short bend tip. To each his own. Glad that is long behind me.

Ron
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

Komatsu PC138 (A50490)
Komatsu PC138 (A50490)
1996 Lincoln Town Car Sedan (A50324)
1996 Lincoln Town...
2015 Ford F-450 Crew Cab Knapheide Service Truck (A50323)
2015 Ford F-450...
2015 MACK GU713 (A50854)
2015 MACK GU713...
John Deere 270 Wheeled Skid Steer (A50322)
John Deere 270...
Gravelly Pro-Turn 148 48in Zero Turn Mower (A48082)
Gravelly Pro-Turn...
 
Top