Rentals...Worth the effort?

   / Rentals...Worth the effort? #11  
... With the down payment I made, it allows me to be $500 + each month. Which adds up quick and covers things like vacancies, major repairs like HVAC, etc. ...

Oh geeze! I misread "vacancies" as "vaccines" and thought, man, you have to get vaccines to be a landlord 'cause you might catch some horrible disease dealing with renters.... :laughing: hahahhaha I need some sleep. :)
 
   / Rentals...Worth the effort? #13  
Have some of this to put you right out :drink:

I'd love to. Unfortunately, I am currently on a strange shift at work and they have some rule about being sober while on the clock.... go figure?

But I will say my boss took this weekend's on-call and Saturday shifts, and you all remember what this weekend is, right?

Golf at Pebble Beach?

No! Its Valentines Day! :rolleyes:
 
   / Rentals...Worth the effort? #14  
I have had a few rentals. Sometimes they are worth it and sometimes they are not. They are always a pain in the rear. Last year I sold the first house I ever bought. I bought it to live in, but met a woman a few months later who I married. I didn't have any equity in the house so I rented it out. The first renters didn't make it 6 months before they couldn't keep up with the rent....second set of renters were worse...paid deposit and rent and never another dime...and trashed the place smashing holes in the was on the way out. 3rd set of renters were there almost 13 years. They consistently were 2-3 weeks late with the rent.. eventually they moved out, and I had to go in and try to get it ready for new tenants. They were smokers....the cigarette smoke was so thick on the walls, that it looked like fire damage. Not kidding. Could not scrub the nicotine and smoke off some of the walls, It had soaked into the plaster. Couldn't seal it on two walls...it kept leading through. So I hired a guy I had worked with many times to come in and tear out 3 walls and replace them. He tore out the walls......and then disappeared for a few weeks. Then popped back up and started working on it again.....did two walls but ran out of money to do the last one. Need an advance for materials. Then...this is the best part, .....moved into the house. Nope.....still not kidding. At this point, there was no toilet in the house. He moved in with his girlfriend, and a large dog. I hadn't heard from him in a week so I drove over before work to check on progress and his care and another car were already there. Door is locked....I don't hear anything so I knock on door and hear a dog barking...WTF???? He comes outside barefoot in jeans and no shirt. And he can't stop itching at himself, like he has bugs......You guessed it....drugs. I walk into the house and for some reason, he has torn out the two walls he just put in, and they are in a pile in the middle of the floor, along with all the baseboard in the whole darn house....all in a pile in the middle of the floor of the living room. His GF walks out of the house with a german shepherd and gets into the second car in the driveway and drives off. I look at the guy and ask what the heck happened to the walls??? He says he had to start over again..doesn't tell me why. I said, you need to leave....don't come back. You don't work for me any more. Then I told him that I figured he was on drugs....my guess was crack or meth, and he needed to clean himself up, but he darn sure wasn't going to work for me any more after that. He left. I looked around. There was no furniture in the house. They had rolled back the wall to wall carpet in the spare bedroom and were sleeping on the carpet pad, with a blanket There was a bit more drama with him, since I had known his father for 15 years. He was a family friend. I brought in two more contractors, one of whom had worked on my current home...they fixed up all the crazy stuff that was done by the previous guy. Then I am trying to rent it out but I want to have a management company handle it.....so, the management company wants me to sand and coat the hardwood floors. They bring in someone they have used before. Who sands, and coats with Polyurethane. But doesn't blow out the pilot light on the furnace.

--Pause for dramatic effect--

It's a special day, when your rental manager calls to tell you that your house blew up. Yes...not completely...it was more of a "flash fire" with a great deal of concussive pressure damage.Thus began a year log journey with Insurance, fire investigators, forensic engineers, and fire restoration companies.
From previous properties that I have rented out, or "flipped", I know that the best time to sell is when lots of renovations have been done. There was not going to be a better time to sell. So I did. I made out well on it. But along the way, I got screwed by an insurance company that wouldn't pay for renter damage, renters that couldn't pay rent, renters that trashed the house after not paying rent, renters that damaged the house with their bad habits. I had insurance drag their feet and try to give me a chump payoff that would barely clear the note I owed on the house, leaving me with an unsellable piece of crap that the county had already condemned.

So, yes, renting can be profitable if you buy right....meaning pay low enough that people wlll pay rent that gives a profit above the mortgage. but there are always bad things out there that happen, even in decent neighborhoods.
 
   / Rentals...Worth the effort? #15  
Rentals are a job... a hands on job and I am onsite about every two weeks.

Bought my first home at age 22 and a year later it became my first rental... about every 18 to 24 months I would finish one and move on to the next... did this for about 10 years.

Rents here are crazy high... even Section 8 just raised the Fair Market 34% yesterday because only 19% of new Voucher Holders were able to secure a rental in 2015... Section 8 is a whole nother aspect for later.

I would say if you are handy... can run it like a business and don't have to travel far it could be the best financial decision ever long term.

As an example... in 1985 I bought a 3 bedroom 1 bath out of probate for $55,000 and it rented for $450 per month... 30 years later the fair market rent is $3000... of course I have a long term tenant paying half that.

My taxes are 2k a year and the home was paid for 15 years ago... and cash flowed from the get go... not counting my time.

One thing to remember is to keep it clean and simple... I don't supply ANY free standing appliances which eliminated 50% of my maintenance and almost 100% of my emergency calls. For the most part I don't have garbage disposal or dishwashers...

Don't over improve... friends bought a fixer and did a great job... spent too much money changing out all the windows and putting down hardwood floors, new kitchen and baths...

She was in tears at the damage suffered in one year... the new kitchen, floors and baths were not new anymore... since it was an eviction... they were already into her.

I tell my tenants pay your rent on time... keep it drama free and take care of the place and I won't raise your rent every year... I hate vacancies and turnovers always cost money...

Make sure you know all the rules that apply in your jurisdiction as you are now a business and will be expected to know... I have had tester apply for apartments and it could have been big trouble... thing is I am very careful and treat all applicants the same and use a consistent standard... so all was good.
 
   / Rentals...Worth the effort? #16  
I have rentals (single family, apartments and self storage). Of all of them the self storage is by FAR the best. Some good comments here, so I'll just cover some of the basics I use when investing:
- Really know your market, if you buy in the right markets you can have very low vacancy and good rents. In ~10 years the longers I've had a unit vacant is 2 months and that was due to an issue with a listing agent
- Make sure you're cashflow positive, investing just for the prinicpal return on mortgage payments isn't enough of a return, you're better off investing elsewhere. You will need to put money in once in a while whether its for repairs, an eviction, etc
- On corporate structure talk to a lawyer. A LLC is ok, but has overhead, often a trust establishes the same liability protection without the overhead (but its entirely state dependent). You'll need a good tax guy too.
- Know the rental laws. They vary widely state to state and sometimes even within a state. Violating the laws can get you in big trouble (criminal and civil). The laws also dictate action in cases like non payment of rent. I'm in a very pro tenant state and that means certain things have to be done really well or you can get automatic triple damages etc
- Treat it like any other investment, calculate and track your ROI. I do mine in two forms: Cash on cash return (I have averaged about 8% APR on the cash over ~10 years I put into the properties) and total return (cash return + any equity gains due to inflation etc). At 3% inflation I calculate a 30+% return over the long hall... of course right now given no inflation in the last 10 years its way less.
- A good property manager is worth their weight in gold. If you have another job and don't live right next to your property its really difficult to manage it. I tried for years until I was in iceland and got a call the heat was out... now I visit my properties once a year or less...
- Buy liability insurance $1m and ideally an umbrella policy on top of that, you WILL get sued at some point

The reason people made so much money on real estate a few decades ago was massive inflation. You have a fixed cost on income that floats with inflation, meaning as rents rise with inflation your mortgage doesn't (if its fixed rate). It can be a great investment, but is hands on, requires specialized knowledge and comes with its own liability.

I started in my early 20's and they'll be good cashflow investments when I pay everything off
 
   / Rentals...Worth the effort? #17  
I have 6 rentals . Remember its ALWAYS a business . NO PAY NO STAY . Screening the tenants is the KEY . I dont have properties in bad areas . I would and have lived in almost every one I own . Have a great lease , mine is 18 pages . NO EXCUSES , train the tenants , charge late fees . Start the eviction process right away when they dont pay . NEVER take a partial payment . No dishwasher , no garbage disposal , no washer or dryer . They break and will be abused . Let the tenant supply their own washer and dryer , when they break its their problem . NO PETS , period . NEVER let emotion cloud your decision , I have had to evict , worst one was a 28 year old woman with 3 kids whose boyfriend left to spend time in the State hotel . I felt bad , but its business .

Overall its been a good additional income
 
   / Rentals...Worth the effort? #18  
... I have had tester apply for apartments and it could have been big trouble... thing is I am very careful and treat all applicants the same and use a consistent standard... so all was good.

What does this mean? What is a tester?
 
   / Rentals...Worth the effort? #19  
A tester is someone baiting you to see if you are discriminating . You have to use the same criteria applied to the applicants . income , criminal records , credit score etc .
 
   / Rentals...Worth the effort? #20  
Yeah I'll stick with buying land and renting to hunting clubs. Far less headaches and you can make just as much money.
 

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