Solar power & Wind Power for residental use

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   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #281  
The problem with solar and wind is that they are feeding into an infrastructure that was not designed to use energy directly. I have a friend who designed an off-grid solar and wind powered home. With forethought, the amount of electricity required is minimal, mostly just for control systems and low velocity pumps. He used 70 cubic yards of concrete as thermal mass for a hydronic heating/cooling system. The windmill runs a 3-tier heat pump system that heats the house in the winter and cools it in the summer. Centrifugal clutches control whether the windmill runs 1, 2 or 3 pumps. Domestic hot water is solar. The range, refrigerator, freezer and clothes dryer are propane. Domestic water is a DC pump powered by PV cells that pumps into a gravity feed cistern. A separate PV/inverter system powers the house electricity, with a generator available when large amounts of power are needed. The inverter will run the washing machine, but he doesn't do laundry at night. :D If this were a grid linked system, the generator would not be necessary. There isn't much peak power demand, because he uses the energy directly instead of generating electricity. A long shower takes no power. The environment inside the house is delightful, and comfortable year round. Unfortunately, our electrical grid feeds buildings that were designed in the era of wood heat. Are you cold? Set something on fire. The only difference is that a thermostat does it automatically, but the house has no inherent energy stability. To get up, make breakfast and take a shower you have to suck kilowatt-hours off the grid. The key to alternative energy sources is to eliminate electricity as much as possible. PV is a really clunky way to use solar, and wind generators are needlessly complex. Why generate electricity to run a pump when you can power the pump directly from the windmill?
Nice post Larry!
 
   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #282  
The problem with solar and wind is that they are feeding into an infrastructure that was not designed to use energy directly. I have a friend who designed an off-grid solar and wind powered home. With forethought, the amount of electricity required is minimal, mostly just for control systems and low velocity pumps. He used 70 cubic yards of concrete as thermal mass for a hydronic heating/cooling system. The windmill runs a 3-tier heat pump system that heats the house in the winter and cools it in the summer. Centrifugal clutches control whether the windmill runs 1, 2 or 3 pumps. Domestic hot water is solar. The range, refrigerator, freezer and clothes dryer are propane. Domestic water is a DC pump powered by PV cells that pumps into a gravity feed cistern. A separate PV/inverter system powers the house electricity, with a generator available when large amounts of power are needed. The inverter will run the washing machine, but he doesn't do laundry at night. :D If this were a grid linked system, the generator would not be necessary. There isn't much peak power demand, because he uses the energy directly instead of generating electricity. A long shower takes no power. The environment inside the house is delightful, and comfortable year round. Unfortunately, our electrical grid feeds buildings that were designed in the era of wood heat. Are you cold? Set something on fire. The only difference is that a thermostat does it automatically, but the house has no inherent energy stability. To get up, make breakfast and take a shower you have to suck kilowatt-hours off the grid. The key to alternative energy sources is to eliminate electricity as much as possible. PV is a really clunky way to use solar, and wind generators are needlessly complex. Why generate electricity to run a pump when you can power the pump directly from the windmill?
So not realistic for 99.99% of real people applications and life style not to mention physical surroundings, space, locations. Natural gas and coal fired plants making electricity is going to be answer for many thousands of years to come. HS
 
   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #283  
Nice post Larry!

So not realistic for 99.99% of real people applications and life style not to mention physical surroundings, space, locations. Natural gas and coal fired plants making electricity is going to be answer for many thousands of years to come. HS
Oh I agree HS... I guess I better clarify before people think I'm a whack job. I was just appreciating the engineering design for an individual off-the-grid system. I think I have already chimed in on my thoughts on solar, etc. While I am very fond of alternative energy sources and my company sells product to these companies, the bottom line is that economics will/should drive energy sources. Until 'green' energy technologies (that aren't as green as most think) are economically equivalent to fossil fuel and other 'dirty' forms, they will not survive in a true capitalistic marketplace. I do support government grants to help spurn and develop emerging technologies in the research phase (such as NASA) because I believe it eventually benefits the masses big time. However subsidies going to profit based companies in the marketplace immediately become political and promote corruption. I could bather further but I better duck my head now...
 
   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #284  
Oh I agree HS... I guess I better clarify before people think I'm a whack job. I was just appreciating the engineering design for an individual off-the-grid system. I think I have already chimed in on my thoughts on solar, etc. While I am very fond of alternative energy sources and my company sells product to these companies, the bottom line is that economics will/should drive energy sources. Until 'green' energy technologies (that aren't as green as most think) are economically equivalent to fossil fuel and other 'dirty' forms, they will not survive in a true capitalistic marketplace. I do support government grants to help spurn and develop emerging technologies in the research phase (such as NASA) because I believe it eventually benefits the masses big time. However subsidies going to profit based companies in the marketplace immediately become political and promote corruption. I could bather further but I better duck my head now...

No need to duck, that was an excellent post, and pretty well sum up my thoughts as well..
 
   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #285  
Oh I agree HS... I guess I better clarify before people think I'm a whack job. I was just appreciating the engineering design for an individual off-the-grid system. I think I have already chimed in on my thoughts on solar, etc. While I am very fond of alternative energy sources and my company sells product to these companies, the bottom line is that economics will/should drive energy sources. Until 'green' energy technologies (that aren't as green as most think) are economically equivalent to fossil fuel and other 'dirty' forms, they will not survive in a true capitalistic marketplace. I do support government grants to help spurn and develop emerging technologies in the research phase (such as NASA) because I believe it eventually benefits the masses big time. However subsidies going to profit based companies in the marketplace immediately become political and promote corruption. I could bather further but I better duck my head now...
I'm not against solar or wind, but, unless you have net metering and take the tax break, it gets hard to make an argument for solar. Wind is not even close in anything but an off grid situation. I have 6.405 kW up on my home. Here's how it works out. Straight up installed cost $23k, $7k tax break, all in $16k. Array produces about $100-150 a month in power. Roughy a .08% return on a $16k investment, tax free. Not many places I could earn 8% tax free on $16k, so I did it...Without net metering it's a bust. HS
 

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   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #286  
No need to duck, that was an excellent post, and pretty well sum up my thoughts as well..
Thanks James... oh and I meant 'blather' not 'bather'. I hate mistyping. At least this time it wasn't too embarrassing. :ashamed: :D
 
   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #287  
26 years in nuclear energy production. Control Tech, Green Man and Emergency Response Team.
Would you address the requirement of backup power supplies having to operate to backup wind and solar when they fail? Tell us the costs of a duplicate generating system , with one operating but not making and $$$ to pay the bills for 1/2 of every day and on weekend days.
 
   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #288  
They are trying to convince people that the ongoing Fukushima leak is negligible, but every year the concentration of radioactive materials increases, and it is starting to show real world effects. People who pay attention have quit eating fish out of the North Pacific.

Pacific Coast fishermen provide proof (photos) that Fukushima is contaminating U.S. fish with radioactive material - Altered Dimensions Paranormal

Are you familiar with chemical battery theory and construction ? In brief various elements make better rechargeable + & (-) plates in a battery. We are already using the most elective materials and thus battery tech is maxed out. The only way to manufacture superior batteries is if the Almighty makes us some new elements.
As for radioactive, everything is radioactive naturally. It's a matter of how much. depending on who you ask , is what is dangerous levels. btw when you stay out in the sun too long and burn your skin red. That is radiation from a nuclear fusion furnace that just dosed your skin to that level of damage. Are you concerned, nope. Yet the 10's of thousands of times less dose from background has people all panicked.
 
   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #289  
Seems some new elements have been discovered.
 
   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #290  
Are you familiar with chemical battery theory and construction ? In brief various elements make better rechargeable + & (-) plates in a battery. We are already using the most elective materials and thus battery tech is maxed out. The only way to manufacture superior batteries is if the Almighty makes us some new elements.
As for radioactive, everything is radioactive naturally. It's a matter of how much. depending on who you ask , is what is dangerous levels. btw when you stay out in the sun too long and burn your skin red. That is radiation from a nuclear fusion furnace that just dosed your skin to that level of damage. Are you concerned, nope. Yet the 10's of thousands of times less dose from background has people all panicked.

Smile, be happy, all is well!
mii
 
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