2014 BX-25D 50 Hour Service.... Problem

Johnkn · Feb 22, 2016

I had my BX25 picked up by my local dealer for its 50 hour service. Service completed and the tractor was delivered to my home when I was at work. I was pleased that they had taken the time to clean it, leaks in the grapple repaired etc. I get on and fire it up, let it warm up for a moment and moved the tractor forward. The pedal feel was significantly different. The pedal was super slow to return to center. Unlike some others reports my pedal and braking always worked perfectly. Now when letting off the forward or rearward pedal the pedal took seconds to return to center and sometime never returned, almost like a spring was off or something was binding. Forward or rearward, same issue, and on flat ground sometimes the tractor would continue to keep moving. I went to put it in the shed, I'm looking at the grapple to make sure it didn't hit anything and **** if the tractor didn't creep 5 feet in reverse and back into the wall. I called the dealer and told them to come get it and mentioned that while I've seen reports of braking issues mine had always worked perfectly. The guy on the phone said " that problem was with the early BX25s and that had been resolved 10 years ago." A comment that really scared me. So we"ll see what happens. Oh, 3-4 times I put it in hi range, 3000 rpm and backed up almost full speed. Took my foot off the pedal, the pedal failed to return to center for perhaps 2 seconds, tractor didn't slow then instantly it centered and it felt like I hit a wall. Wish me luck. No brake issues going in and now this.

s219 · Feb 22, 2016

If the treadle never returns to center on its own at all, then I'd suspect the return spring got broken or disconnected. I'd encourage you to crawl under the tractor (engine off, key removed, wheels chocked) while a helper moves the treadle back and forth with their foot. Look for the mechanism that's moving an look for the return spring to see if it's doing it's job. You can download parts diagrams from Messicks to study the design on paper.

It's also possible they messed up the damper on the HST treadle or it suddenly failed. Neither seems plausible to me though. But look for what appears to be like a little shock absorber connected to the linkages for the treadle, and observe what's happening. That damper should control the rate the treadle returns to center. It has an adjustment to control that rate. Look for signs that someone fiddled with that.

Basically, the spring is what will tug the treadle back to center when you remove your foot, and the damper controls the rate at which it returns to center. If either of them are stuck or binding, it's going to act weird like you have described.

The treadle also has a couple grease points, and a lack of grease can impede motion. Not sure if the recent 50-hr greasing would have screwed up something in that regard though.

BTW, the braking issues some have described are directly tied to the damper and its adjustment, and result in consistently poor or no braking when letting off the treadle. What you have described is a lot more erratic and a lot less consistent, so to me it sounds like a more obvious issue, like something stuck in the mechanism or a part of the spring or damper not being connected right.

Johnkn · Feb 22, 2016

Thanks for your response, we'll see what happens. It just torques me though that it stopped perfectly before the service and now it's hosed. Always something....

94BULLITT · Feb 22, 2016

There is an adjustment on the damper on the hydro pedal. IIRC the spec for a BX is it is supposed to stop in 8-10' on concrete when you let of the pedal at full speed in high range.

Jeff F. · Feb 23, 2016

It seems that they pressure washed it to clean it. It's possible debris got into the linkage in the process. I agree you will need to look under the tractor to see what's going on

JFoy · Feb 23, 2016

Take a look at Paul Shorts' video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdEq4pqFb5I

s219 · Feb 23, 2016

That is a great video -- Paul has diagnosed and corrected the issue perfectly and it's clear as day in this video. I can't remember how many times I have told people here on TBN it's just a simple spring/damper adjustment and nobody believed me.

4shorts · Feb 23, 2016

s219 said:
That is a great video -- Paul has diagnosed and corrected the issue perfectly and it's clear as day in this video. I can't remember how many times I have told people here on TBN it's just a simple spring/damper adjustment and nobody believed me.

Thank You :thumbsup:

s219 · Feb 23, 2016

4shorts said:
Thank You :thumbsup:

Hey, thank you!!! Love all your videos and custom fab work.

Johnkn · Feb 23, 2016

Dealer picked it up, we'll see what happens. When complete I'm going to drive over and test it before they bring it back.

Seems I was one of the chosen few to have the pedal work right and stop the tractor properly since new, now I can only think that someone untrained got under it and adjusted something (damper or spring) that didn't need adjusting. Or as was suggested, the pressure washing blew some debris into it. More to come. thanks

Johnkn · Feb 23, 2016

Well, I'm sitting here with steam rolling out of my ears.

The dealer returned the BX25 with no call or no update in about 2 hours, I was surprised in the quick turnaround. If anything the condition is worse. Pedal all the way down in reverse, I remove my foot and start counting one thousand one, etc. Pedal very slowly creeps up and It takes a full 3 seconds + for the pedal to fully return to the center position and stop moving with the tractor moving much of that time. It's a little better in forward, but not close to being correct. I will post a phone video later.

msb1766 · Feb 23, 2016

Take a look at this video from Paul Short:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdEq4pqFb5I

He seemed to fix his BX.

Johnkn · Feb 23, 2016

Thanks, I've seen Paul's great video(s). Tractor is under warranty and stopped perfectly before the service. I'm not touching it now due to liability issues. Someone gets hurt, I'm in court, judge says "did you know the tractor wasn't stopping correctly" I reply, "yes your honor, but even through I'm not officially certified in Kubota repair I saw something on the internet and knew I could fix it".. ABSOLUTELY NO negative dig towards Paul, I'm certain he of all people understands the liability issue at this point. If I keep the tractor as it presently is there could be an implied acceptance or acknowledgement of proper repair. I sure hope this doesn't turn into a long thread. thanks

s219 · Feb 23, 2016

Well, I'd at least recommend crawling under there and study everything in case you can spot the problem. Given the dealer incompetence we've seen around this issue, you may indeed have to be the one that diagnoses the problem and then tells them what's wrong. If they adjusted the spring or damper, you should be able to tell by looking at the bolts/brackets.

I guess I'd also want to talk to the dealer service department and ask them what they changed or did that would affect the treadle linkages. Somebody has to know something. It doesn't just change on its own.

4shorts · Feb 23, 2016

Johnkn said:
Thanks, I've seen Paul's great video(s). Tractor is under warranty and stopped perfectly before the service. I'm not touching it now due to liability issues. Someone gets hurt, I'm in court, judge says "did you know the tractor wasn't stopping correctly" I reply, "yes your honor, but even through I'm not officially certified in Kubota repair I saw something on the internet and knew I could fix it".. ABSOLUTELY NO negative dig towards Paul, I'm certain he of all people understands the liability issue at this point. If I keep the tractor as it presently is there could be an implied acceptance or acknowledgement of proper repair. I sure hope this doesn't turn into a long thread. thanks

Your a smart guy. They messed it up so they must fix it. That's what the warranty is for I know it must be terribly frustrating for you. I'm very much used to dealer frig ups too.
Keep after them to make it right. Thanks for your kind words too. :thumbsup:

Johnkn · Feb 23, 2016

Well, just got off the phone with the dealer. He said "I drove it and it operates just like all the other BX25's" and "I've sold hundreds and it's just like them" . I asked him if it took all the others a full 3 seconds when lifting your foot from the pedal for the pedal to stop moving and fully return to center but didn't get much of an answer other than some studdering. I asked about the spring and dampener and he was insistent that it's difficult to access and that they didn't touch it as there was no absolutely need.
Wondering if the full fluid change could contribute to the problem and whether the condition might improve with some operation and heat in the fluid (43* F here today). I've driven it below zero and never noticed a difference but have never driven immediately after a fluid change. I'll try to post the video later. thanks all...

s219 · Feb 23, 2016

At 50 hours they should only have changed the filters, not the fluid, unless the BX is different than other Kubotas I have owned. So in reality, they may have needed to top off the fluid, but that's it (if done right, you only lose a cup or two).

To me this treadle behavior is almost all external to the transmission. If you took the spring and damper off, the treadle would flop around however you move it (there would be some resistance of course, but it's not going to move back to center on its own). It takes the spring to want to strongly bias the treadle back to center, and it takes the damper to control the rate of the spring.

Just makes me wonder if either the damper or spring has broke, or got messed up somehow. It may be obvious upon inspection.

I forget the exact details, but I had issues with the treadle hanging up on my previous Kubota, and it took some lubrication of the treadle linkage to solve the problem. In that case the linkage was sticking and that wasn't letting the spring drag the treadle back to center smoothly. It took me a few tries to determine where I needed to squirt the lube to solve the problem.

Johnkn · Feb 23, 2016

Sorry, you are correct, I misspoke.

Quote from RO:

complete 50 hour service per manual, changed oil and oil filter, changed fuel and hyd filters, added UTD fluid, replaced air filter, fully greased tractor and BH. etc. I'm stumped. I'll look at the spring and dampener this weekend. thanks all

Johnkn · Feb 23, 2016

I'll get a vid with a real camera later, this is from my phone, my apologies for the terrible quality. Hi range, 2400 rpm, full speed in reverse, foot off pedal, one thousand 1, one thousand 2, one thousand 3, pedal finally stopped moving and is centered. Is this correct?

https://youtu.be/ITP8pPyDGnc