Solar power & Wind Power for residental use

[OldMcDonald]

I pay more attention than most (well, up to the limits of what my BP will take ), but even I've started losing track of how many $1B+ scandals have played out here.....

Even if I didn't have a technical interest (I do) in going off-grid, the nonsense we've been discussing would be enough to cause me to consider off-grid for a retirement home here.

Rgds, D.

Move to somewhere more pleasant for your retirement - like Portugal

 

[3930dave]

Move to somewhere more pleasant for your retirement - like Portugal

There are lots of things I like about Canada, but the trajectory that our taxes and costs are on have plenty of people considering just that.

But.... as my interest goes beyond just financial, I'll probably end up with an off-grid system regardless of where I land :thumbsup:

Rgds, D.

 

[OldMcDonald]

Another good reason to come to Portugal!! Whilst you are constructing your system you can be hooked up to the grid and have the pleasure of at least 75% of your power being provided from renewables.

It has just occurred to me though, that your electricity is not so expensive after all. 18c Canadian is not the same as 18c US. It is quite a fair bit less. Maybe people in Ontario should not moan so much about what they are paying, and concentrate instead on getting better management into your generating operations.

 

[buickanddeere]

Another good reason to come to Portugal!! Whilst you are constructing your system you can be hooked up to the grid and have the pleasure of at least 75% of your power being provided from renewables.

It has just occurred to me though, that your electricity is not so expensive after all. 18c Canadian is not the same as 18c US. It is quite a fair bit less. Maybe people in Ontario should not moan so much about what they are paying, and concentrate instead on getting better management into your generating operations.

Check those numbers . 75% installed capacity is not supplying 75% of electricity useds. Capacity and Capacity Factor are two different descriptions .
Of the daily 5.5 to 7 MW peak , over 2Mw is supplied from Spain by burning coal and NG from Morocco .

 

[Ken]

Yes, the salt is essentially at atmospheric pressure. The only reason water is pressurized in a conventional reactor is to allow it to remain liquid at temperatures over 600 deg F. In a salt cooled reactor, if I recall correctly, the salt can be heated to over 800 deg F at atmospheric pressure and remain liquid.

In answer to another question, yes, the salt stores heat, but the amount of salt is only enough to transfer the heat from the reactor core to the steam generators. That would only store the full reactor output for a short time. However, the decay heat is !% or less of full output so it can store decay heat for a long period.

Kenny G This use of salt may be what was used in a generator that we used in the early 70's Made by Solar international and from Italy looked like a canister with fins about 6 feet around and 3 feet tall . Burned natural gas and used to keep batteries charged for the radios and measurement equipment.
Only problem were the connection fittings kept leaking caused by the fluid no one would reveal to us what it was. Looked like sorghum molasses , smelt worse and as the gas burned melted the fluid which vapor flowed over the Thermocouple diodes in heat sink developed the voltage then ran back down to heater and reheated.
Your comment of this heat transfer reminded me of this unit.
Any idea of type of fluid it was solid at room temp and melted if poured on to the hand.
Like most good ideas just didn't preform like the company said it would.
so returned after the trail test.
ken

 

[OldMcDonald]

Check those numbers . 75% installed capacity is not supplying 75% of electricity useds. Capacity and Capacity Factor are two different descriptions .
Of the daily 5.5 to 7 MW peak , over 2Mw is supplied from Spain by burning coal and NG from Morocco .

I am not talking about "installed capacity" I am talking about electricity actually generated. Where did you get your figure that somewhere between about 30 and 40% of Portugal's electricity use is derived from Spanish coal and Moroccan NG? It is news to me and if that was correct then Portugal is not using any nuclear whatsoever. Do you believe that?

The figures are given to me as part of my monthly bill by the supplier - which is not the generator of the power. If you can prove it wrong, then I will gladly request an explanation of the figures I am given every month.

 

[KennyG]

The latest numbers I have seen are from 2014 when Portugal generated over 60% of it's power from hydro and wind/solar (about equally split). I think coal was a little under 25% and natural gas the rest. Portugal does not have any nuclear units so unless there are imports from Spain, they use no nuclear generated electricity.

Since the renewables will have lower capacity factors than the fossil units, I would assume the renewables share of installed capacity is higher than the generation share. That always happens. Interestingly, in 2015 it was reported that Portugal wind generation exceeded demand at one point. This indicates the system has reached saturation for wind energy and further development would not be economic without a storage option.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

The green power is subsidized by Hydro One increasing the spread between the wholesale grid rate and retail in order to pay green power extra . This the rate payers are on the hook for that.
Then again the rate payers are also tax payers and were robbed 30 billion paid to wind corporations to build and install turbines .

Every utility company is different. My power provider lets people volunteer to pay extra for green power. A surprising number do. They buy the full output of the Stateline Project (https://www.bpa.gov/power/pgc/wind/Wind_Project_Summary_Stateline.pdf) from Florida Power and Light and resell part of it into other markets.

Financing for construction was private, but there was a carrot of investment tax credits to get the big money to play.

Wind power financing

Other than voluntary subscription, individual ratepayers did not see any rate increase from wind power.

 

[OldMcDonald]

Wind 47.9%, Hydro 15.3%, Other renewables 10%, Fossil fuels 20.4% and Other 6.4%. As I already said I understand that the "Other" is mainly imported nuclear power that is generated in Spain

KennyG, You obviously know your way around this business. I have already posted these numbers twice, but here they are again. I have to take them on face value as they are printed on everyone's monthly bill. It states on the pie chart and table of percentages that they relate to the year 2014. They have been appearing for a few months now, prior to which the 2013 figures were shown.I do not have any bills prior to January as they are all with my accountant.

So far as wind is concerned, it appears that it is normal to export overnight production (daily figures are available via the REN website) and to import at some other times of the day. That may or may not be economic. If the overnight power is sold at less than the cost of production - as would appear to be the case in Ontario, then it would be necessary to conduct a large scale cost:benefit analysis, and I neither have the information nor the will to do it if I had the info.

 

[Knight9]

There is no connection between the cause of the problem and the use of solar and wind power.

I'm not sure I agree with you. It is because the source is solar and wind that the environment is ripe for the economic situation. Canada has jumped on the bandwagon, and so there are a number of governments and individuals that are trying to both appear to be "green" and make money off of it at the same time. It's a dangerous mix.