GFCI lifespan only 10 years?

[LD1]

Are you bragging your a big $%^&?
Are you a four flusher?

Said in the forrest gump voice after the $**T happens bumper sticker....

"S-O-M-E-T-I-M-E-S"

 

[dmccarty]

Not to hijack, but funny you mention that. Really wonder if we are saving any water when it takes multiple flushes to get the job done. Same thing with shower heads. Takes twice as long to get wet, twice as long to rinse the soap out of my hair......twice as long in the shower. Am I really saving any water?

Yeah, I think we are saving water. Seems like the toilets in our old city house used 5 gallons per flush. The toilets were from the mid 70s. The new house has the new mandated toilets at 1.6GPF. The kids still clog the toilets irregardless of the GPF. :confused3: Even with two flushes for solids with the 1.6 GPF toilet that is only 3.2 gallons verse 5 with our old toilets. Our city water bill was between $75-125 and that was 15 years ago with small kids. I would hate to see what it would be today. :shocked: The water bill went down to $50-75 when we bought a front loading washer that uses very little water per load. I wonder what we would have saved if we had replaced the toilets....

We had shower heads the reduced flow and they worked just fine. The last shower I took in the house had the shower heads that came with the plumbing since we took the hand helds shower heads with us. The regular flow shower head just wastes water. I was shocked how much was being wasted and not just cold water but hot water.

The hand held shower heads we have use less than 1 GPM and they work just fine. I still have to tell the kids to get out out of the shower after 10-15 minutes but at least I know they only used 10-15 gallons. If we had regular shower heads we would use at least twice that much.

We are on a well and we have 15 GPM recovery on the well so we have plenty of water. But as granny said, Waist not, want not. :laughing::laughing::laughing: It does cost money to pull that water from the well and heat it. :laughing:

We where in Hong Kong a few years ago and I was shocked at the amount of water the shower and toilet used. :shocked::laughing::laughing::laughing: Just wasteful. :shocked: What would granny say!? I guess they have plenty of water from rain fall but dang that was wasteful.

Later,
Dan

 

[jrclark]

You from central Wisconsin so perhaps WSAx...that be me and I'm humbled by your appreciation (I am only an expert in my own opinions). Anyway, we built a house in Jackson Co in 2010. My son and I did most of the electric (with a licensed guy guiding us). GFCI's are now required in any kitchen outlet (I think we have 4 separate circuits in the kitchen because the electrician ran into a jack-*** inspector in a different county that said no more than 2 outlets per circuit...whereas my inspector said 2 dedicated circuits in the kitchen). But anyway we have 4, each occupying that precious space in the panel. GFCI's can be "daisy-chained" so you get downstream protection on a standard outlet. Bad part is that if the GFCI goes bad you lose anything downstream from there. As I recall the refrigerator is on a separate "non-GFCI" circuit (another space in that precious panel) as is the freezer. I think that is current code. GFCI's required anywhere somebody might be standing in water is the best I can figure. I grew up in a house with 60a service and a large kitchen with only the 2 prong outlets...nobody died...

FYI, you should not need a dedicated outlet for a fridge or freezer. Neat trick for that is to make the fridge the first drop in a GFCI kitchen circuit. GFCIs purposefully kill power to the load side to prevent further issues with the circuit. Not sure what the other inspector was thinking with 2 outlets per circuit. That's a new one for me. In the meantime, I stand by my previous comments in this thread about inspectors.

Btw, you should be able to install a 100A sub panel next to the main panel. You need the real estate, not the amperage.

I had the same luxury that you enjoyed with wiring a new house. Had an electrician with 30+ years experience pull permits, help me on the first day of wiring to lay out circuits, then another day for the initial panel work and splicing. It was awesome, he answered every question through text making my job really easy. I handled all aspects of low voltage since that coincides with the exact nature of my employment. Saved a boat load - which allowed the wife to spend more in other areas of the house

 

[teejk]

FYI, you should not need a dedicated outlet for a fridge or freezer. Neat trick for that is to make the fridge the first drop in a GFCI kitchen circuit. GFCIs purposefully kill power to the load side to prevent further issues with the circuit. Not sure what the other inspector was thinking with 2 outlets per circuit. That's a new one for me. In the meantime, I stand by my previous comments in this thread about inspectors.

Btw, you should be able to install a 100A sub panel next to the main panel. You need the real estate, not the amperage.

I had the same luxury that you enjoyed with wiring a new house. Had an electrician with 30+ years experience pull permits, help me on the first day of wiring to lay out circuits, then another day for the initial panel work and splicing. It was awesome, he answered every question through text making my job really easy. I handled all aspects of low voltage since that coincides with the exact nature of my employment. Saved a boat load - which allowed the wife to spend more in other areas of the house

Just out of curiosity I looked at the refrigerator connection this morning. Not GFCI and I'm sure it drops to a dedicated circuit. When it comes to refrigerator/freezer I have no problems with that! Some problems arise from hooking things to an outlet to feed a down-stream outlet. I know that that the preferred method is to keep every outlet live via use of "pig-tails" but no electrician I have ever encountered bother and quite frankly I have never seen a quality outlet fail to the point where it drops the down-stream feed (other than GFCI which brings us back to the topic). As for "real-estate", when I built here I made the decision to install a 24 slot panel apart from the main panel...thick wire on a 100a breaker but cost-wise it made sense..."home-running" all those drops on the south end to the north end would have been very expensive especially since there is very little load over there (bedrooms, mechanicals, baths).

 

[Soundguy]

Wish I could say the same for the contractor packs I bought at Home Depot 15 years ago... don't know the number but a lot have failed... most stop by not being able to reset and a few will not trip.

My impression is you get what you pay for.

I dislike those contractor packs.

I have replaced about half the duplex outlets, all the dimmer lamp switches, and a couple sp lamp switches in my house that was built in 99. Most of them within the first 5-10.

looking at the .79 cent outlets vs the 1.89$ outlets.. it's scarry...

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm seeing a lot of newer, bigger houses with two 200 amp panels in their garages and at least a dozen GFCI outlets next to them on the wall. They run power from the panel, to the GFCI outlet, then to where they need it, like the kitchen and bathrooms. Plus the back porch and half a dozen other areas that I never figured out. If they all go out, there are going to be a lot of upset home owners!!!

I've always wondered why light bulbs go so quickly when there is one that has been working at a fire station for over 100 years?

Livermore's Centennial Light Bulb

 

[PILOON]

I just hope that none of our municipal inspectors read this topic as for sure they would pass another bylaw mandating GFI replacements and that probably would read 'every 5 years' (just to be safe). For our protection naturally.

Little known is that many vehicle maintenance programs call for replacement of all rubber pressure line at 5 years and careful examination will show you date codes stamped on hose stock.
Some municipalities use this excuse to renew their vehicle fleets.

 

[davesl708]

Won't be long till some guy smacks his thumb with a hammer and we need to install a rubber safety pad on the head of the hammer or some electronic sensor that stops the hammer before it hits a thumb.

The thing most are not told is GFI's only protect from an imbalance between hot and neutral. There are instances where that does not occur and you get nailed.

 

[Soundguy]

it's like those warnings on push mowers not to pick them up by the deck with your hands to use them to trim hedges.

wonder how many people did that before those stickers came out.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I'm with teejk. By the way, are you the same "teejk' that posts on a news site here in WI? I like reading you're comments. If not, then never mind. The last electrical code class I was in was 2005. At the time they were proposing all kitchen outlets be GFI protected. I see the need for countertop outlets to be GFIs but who want's their refrigerator or basement freezer to be protected by such a finicky device that only takes a storm or an absent minded house cleaner to accidentally trip it?

By good craftsmanship, your freezer should be on a separate (dedicated)circuit from others and by Code there is no requirement for it to have a GFCI on it. IIRC the NEC, only circuits within 6 feet(?maybe less, it has been a few years since studying NEC) of a water source require GFCI. There are lots of places in my kitchen that are not within 10 feet of a water source.