Rear Tires Cupped after 2K Miles

ustmd · Mar 22, 2016

Need some feedback on who I should go after--if anyone.

I replaced the tires (Michelin) on the Nissan Quest back in January at a leading nation wide tire and battery seller (it was a Sunday). I did not get the alignment done as I had the car aligned just 4 month prior.

Today, the car is in for service at the dealer who calls to tell me the rear tires are cupped so bad they need to be replaced and the the front are not far behind. I have only put 2K on the vehicle.

So, assuming the car was out of alignment in January, can the tires cupped that quickly or should I be pushing back on the place I bought the tires.

Before, I get negative comments about dealer service, I have had a relationship with this dealer for 15 years and they have yet to over sell or cheat me.

motownbrowne · Mar 22, 2016

It's hard to believe that you could wreck Michelin's in 2,000 miles. I'm not an expert by any means, but isn't cupping a symptom of over inflation, rather than poor alignment?

tallyho8 · Mar 22, 2016

I bought a new tandem flatbed trailer a couple of years ago to use to haul hay and shavings for my horses. It is a 7' wide 20' long trailer with only about 2000 miles on it. Both tires on the front axle are cupped badly and need to be replaced.

I feel that it is some kind of problem with the trailer but since I use it so rarely and it took me a couple of years to cup the tires, I am sure the dealer will deny any warranty work on it.

I am wondering what might have caused this problem?

EarPlug · Mar 22, 2016

First thing I would do is put it on the alignment rack and see what the numbers are before trying to align it. You don't say how old/miles are on the vehicle? A common cause of cupping tires is worn out shocks or struts.

zzvyb6 · Mar 22, 2016

Cupping of tire tread is usually not an alignment problem, its a balance problem. You need to have tires on an axle dynamically balanced, not just given a static balance. There is a big difference. Dynamic balancing zeros the out of plane rocking moments in the tire/wheel assembly.

Tires and wheels are balanced, sure, but no one usually balances the tire/wheel/rotor/drum assembly as a unit. A few bad ball joints and control arm bushings or a dragging brake piston will alter the stiffness, alignment and balance of an axle, too. And just because the alignment is done with the vehicle stationary on an aligner doesn't mean that those settings are the same at speed, under load, and rotating with an imbalance problem.

Go look on YouTube for videos of this phenom. Better yet, have someone take a selfie video of your vehicle at about 62 mph and enjoy the dance. Toe and camber alignment causes asymmetric shoulder wear, pressure causes center and symmetric wear.

Ditto on the bad shock absorber cause, too. A bad shock with a lot of friction in the suspension causes the vertical forces to lag the drag (rolling resistance) force. That causes the scuffing as the suspension toes in and out with ride travel. Really old science here...

Clay45 · Mar 22, 2016

zzvyb6 said:
Cupping of tire tread is usually not an alignment problem, its a balance problem. You need to have tires on an axle dynamically balanced, not just given a static balance. There is a big difference. Dynamic balancing zeros the out of plane rocking moments in the tire/wheel assembly.
...

Where does one go to get this done?

95XL883 · Mar 23, 2016

motownbrowne said:
It's hard to believe that you could wreck Michelin's in 2,000 miles. I'm not an expert by any means, but isn't cupping a symptom of over inflation, rather than poor alignment?

My experience with Michelin Pilots is they wear much better with the pressure in the 40 to 42 range. (The sidewall says a max cold pressure of 44.) I chewed up two sets of 50,000 mile Pilot's in 35,000 miles running them at 35 pounds (and they were rags at that point). I've got four sets on four different vehicles (an RDX, a Ranger, a Magnum and a Camaro) right now and all look like they'll make 70,000 miles. The Pilot's are the first and only tires that I have tried running over 35. No cupping, no excessive wear in the middle. I did catch a fair amount of crap when I initially ran those pressures but now the shops (Acura dealer and Costco) are glad to inflate them that high.

I had a set of Bridgestones on the Ranger that cupped badly at 30,000 miles. Tire pressure was at 32-35 pounds. The alignment and suspension check came back with no problems so I tried a set of Good Years. They were okay but noisy and lousy gas mileage but the wear was even. I then went to the Pilots and have been very happy. The Ranger suspension has been trouble-free except for the right front wheel bearing failed about 10,000 miles ago. That doesn't seem to have affected the wear pattern.

My $.02 is if tires are cupping in 2,000 miles that there is something defective in the tires themselves. Are those Mich's that went bad that quick?

95XL883 · Mar 23, 2016

zzvyb6 said:
Cupping of tire tread is usually not an alignment problem, its a balance problem. You need to have tires on an axle dynamically balanced, not just given a static balance. There is a big difference. Dynamic balancing zeros the out of plane rocking moments in the tire/wheel assembly.

Tires and wheels are balanced, sure, but no one usually balances the tire/wheel/rotor/drum assembly as a unit. A few bad ball joints and control arm bushings or a dragging brake piston will alter the stiffness, alignment and balance of an axle, too. And just because the alignment is done with the vehicle stationary on an aligner doesn't mean that those settings are the same at speed, under load, and rotating with an imbalance problem.

Go look on YouTube for videos of this phenom. Better yet, have someone take a selfie video of your vehicle at about 62 mph and enjoy the dance. Toe and camber alignment causes asymmetric shoulder wear, pressure causes center and symmetric wear.

Ditto on the bad shock absorber cause, too. A bad shock with a lot of friction in the suspension causes the vertical forces to lag the drag (rolling resistance) force. That causes the scuffing as the suspension toes in and out with ride travel. Really old science here...

Very interesting. Thanks for the info. I'm glad my vehicles ride smooth. On my wheel bearing failure, I could hear it when nobody else could. (The service writer finally heard it when I went on the ride with him and pointed it out.) Guess I caught it early.

Ken · Mar 25, 2016

The warranty on Michelin tire should cover unless you never had the coverage.
I had this winter 4 tires on the 2500 Dodge lose the rubber and weather check to point ready to fail. And only 2 years old . Tire Dealer replaced and returned money on 2 ties had purchased because traveling and no dealer close by.
Have used Michelin for many years and first time had a failure.
Then purchased a Lincoln with Michelin tires and at 15K miles rear tires were scuffing the tread and had to have the wheels aligned . Also first time ever had to get new vehicle rear wheels aligned.
Must be something in the water at engineering schools.
ken