Hi guys, I was having some lift issues with my 165. Not wanting to lift my finish mower. I had planned on tackling this over the winter but now here I am in the spring working on the tractor. Anyway turns out my pump has a busted piston. Also the piston rings are destroyed and one of the brass blocks is stuck on one of the cam lobes. It looks like the PTO shaft may have been shoved into the back of the tractor at some point and damaged the pump. The follower is also damaged. I am not sure a rebuild kit would be enough, so its looking like I need the whole pump and was just wondering where to get it since most are aftermarket.
1973 Massey Ferguson 165 Hydro lift issues
- Thread starter 73MF165
- Start date
- Views: 4224
-
- Tags
- massey ferguson 165
PatrickS2222
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2016
- Messages
- 494
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
- Tractor
- MF35, MF135, MF203 with loader.
Hi, not a good situation.
I've not bought a replacement pump, although I've never been shy of aftermarket parts, nor have I had any bad experiences.
A complete pump assembly from someone like Bepco or Sparex or similar should be fine - just enquire if your warranty is valid if you fit it yourself, renew the pick-up filter (not costly), ensure there's no sediment or debris on the floor of the casing and, if in any doubt about the oil quality, renew it too (SAE 90 or 80W90 gear oil).
I've not bought a replacement pump, although I've never been shy of aftermarket parts, nor have I had any bad experiences.
A complete pump assembly from someone like Bepco or Sparex or similar should be fine - just enquire if your warranty is valid if you fit it yourself, renew the pick-up filter (not costly), ensure there's no sediment or debris on the floor of the casing and, if in any doubt about the oil quality, renew it too (SAE 90 or 80W90 gear oil).
Thanks, I have the replacement pump. I took it apart to compare it to the Massey pump. The only thing I see that I did not like was the fact that the brass blocks did not have oil holes drilled into them to get oil to that cam lobes. I will take care of that. Other that that it seems fine. Have not got it back in the tractor yet.
PatrickS2222
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2016
- Messages
- 494
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
- Tractor
- MF35, MF135, MF203 with loader.
Sounds like that would be a good idea - copy what oil supply holes the original blocks have into the new ones. Did you get a new filter, or is the current one the washable mesh type?
I ended up moving the aluminum housing that the filter sits on , from the old pump to the new one, becasue I liked the old filter better. It was the stainless steel mesh filter. The one on the new pump looked kind of cheesy to me and the old filter would not fit it. Long story short, got the tractor back together and my lift still will not raise with my mower on the back. It does with no load on it though. I bought a new stand pipe, becasue a whole new pipe was pretty much the same price as the seals. I was having trouble getting the pipe to go back in the pump and the diverter block. The small rings on the pipe kept catching on the pump body and did not want to seat. Wondering if there is a trick or a special tool, like a small ring compressor. I ended up putting the old one back in.
I did not touch anything on the lift cover itself, so there is a possibility the seal in the cylinder could be bad. I guess I need to pull the side cover off and look for leaks.
PatrickS2222
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2016
- Messages
- 494
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
- Tractor
- MF35, MF135, MF203 with loader.
Wow ..... looking good! :thumbsup: Almost too good to go back to work! 
But they really don't ever actually want to retire
Regarding the lifting fault:
If the arms leak down (more than about 1" per minute with about 50lbs on the drawbar) the cylinder seals may be an issue, although I cannot see this being the cause. Our loader will leak down from top to bottom in 3 minutes with only a drawbar, but still readily lift an incredibly heavy soil aerator. The draft control might need some attention - it could just be as though the draft lever is not fully raised, causing it to only apply a light lifting effort. Try removing the sliding spring-loaded screw from the lever and gently move it further "up" - beyond the end of its normal travel limit.
Looking for leaks is one of the next things I would do - although it may be an idea (quicker, easier & less messy) to remove the small cap and standpipe just to inspect those seals. Also check they fit well and snugly-enough to seal. I recall a smear of grease on seals and in bores, inserting the pipe in the cap and lowering them, carefully "stepping" the lower end of the pipe around a bit to find the pump outlet - I think I remember it being tapered at the top. A friend prefers to insert the pipe in the pump first, position the cap over it and a small wriggle will convince it to slip into place. Patience is the key - finesse, not force! I have to repair another friend's 35 with the same symptoms as yours currently has. Let me know what you findout (or fix), I'll keep you posted on what I find as well.
You're a couple of years ahead of me, doing the same sort of restoration/rejuvenation work I intend with the machines here - our "trio". Ours as well will still "have their workwear available" as does yours.
Could you please help me with a bit of info? What are the approximate lengths of your tractor's lower lift arms, also the link rods down to them from the hydraulic plate? Measuring between bolt/link hole centres may be best option.
Our loader is a MF40, appears to have been a loader from new, based on an industrial machine but equipped with 3PL and PTO. The back end, both axle assemblies and wheel/tyre sizes appear to be the same as your tractor has, but with much more heavily-cast rear wheel centres and rims bolted to them. The best description is to say it has the same 3cyl Perkins, 3x2 gearbox, hydraulic plate and rear end housing as our 135, but uprated axles with hub reduction and power steering, double-disc dry brakes, wheels & tyres and industrial-styled bonnet. The loader is very well-built - the main rails bolt to the rear axle, lift arms have been pressed to stiffen and strengthen them and attach to a strong cast radiator housing which mounts on the front axle - very impressive IMHO. The bucket is a serious size as well - 66"x18"x18" (3/4 cu yd). TractorData quotes a weight of 5085lbs - results in a very stable machine. Pedals, levers, gauges, 3PL quadrant etc however are all the same as a 35.
I have no idea at all what POs have done, but the lower lift arms and lift link rods are the same length as a MF35. This results in the arms lifting quite a bit higher than normal, but lowering only to about 13" from the ground, whereas the 135 will go a lot lower - to within about 3". The problem is that a lot of implements designed for agricultural machines rely on that lower range of travel. Good examples are our slasher doesn't rest on the ground, and our post-hole digger will only dig about 15" deep, instead of around 36". I believe longer lifting links may be sufficient, but longer lower arms as well may also be necessary.
Many thanks for any assistance you can give me.
But they really don't ever actually want to retire Regarding the lifting fault:
If the arms leak down (more than about 1" per minute with about 50lbs on the drawbar) the cylinder seals may be an issue, although I cannot see this being the cause. Our loader will leak down from top to bottom in 3 minutes with only a drawbar, but still readily lift an incredibly heavy soil aerator. The draft control might need some attention - it could just be as though the draft lever is not fully raised, causing it to only apply a light lifting effort. Try removing the sliding spring-loaded screw from the lever and gently move it further "up" - beyond the end of its normal travel limit.
Looking for leaks is one of the next things I would do - although it may be an idea (quicker, easier & less messy) to remove the small cap and standpipe just to inspect those seals. Also check they fit well and snugly-enough to seal. I recall a smear of grease on seals and in bores, inserting the pipe in the cap and lowering them, carefully "stepping" the lower end of the pipe around a bit to find the pump outlet - I think I remember it being tapered at the top. A friend prefers to insert the pipe in the pump first, position the cap over it and a small wriggle will convince it to slip into place. Patience is the key - finesse, not force! I have to repair another friend's 35 with the same symptoms as yours currently has. Let me know what you findout (or fix), I'll keep you posted on what I find as well.
You're a couple of years ahead of me, doing the same sort of restoration/rejuvenation work I intend with the machines here - our "trio". Ours as well will still "have their workwear available" as does yours.
Could you please help me with a bit of info? What are the approximate lengths of your tractor's lower lift arms, also the link rods down to them from the hydraulic plate? Measuring between bolt/link hole centres may be best option.
Our loader is a MF40, appears to have been a loader from new, based on an industrial machine but equipped with 3PL and PTO. The back end, both axle assemblies and wheel/tyre sizes appear to be the same as your tractor has, but with much more heavily-cast rear wheel centres and rims bolted to them. The best description is to say it has the same 3cyl Perkins, 3x2 gearbox, hydraulic plate and rear end housing as our 135, but uprated axles with hub reduction and power steering, double-disc dry brakes, wheels & tyres and industrial-styled bonnet. The loader is very well-built - the main rails bolt to the rear axle, lift arms have been pressed to stiffen and strengthen them and attach to a strong cast radiator housing which mounts on the front axle - very impressive IMHO. The bucket is a serious size as well - 66"x18"x18" (3/4 cu yd). TractorData quotes a weight of 5085lbs - results in a very stable machine. Pedals, levers, gauges, 3PL quadrant etc however are all the same as a 35.
I have no idea at all what POs have done, but the lower lift arms and lift link rods are the same length as a MF35. This results in the arms lifting quite a bit higher than normal, but lowering only to about 13" from the ground, whereas the 135 will go a lot lower - to within about 3". The problem is that a lot of implements designed for agricultural machines rely on that lower range of travel. Good examples are our slasher doesn't rest on the ground, and our post-hole digger will only dig about 15" deep, instead of around 36". I believe longer lifting links may be sufficient, but longer lower arms as well may also be necessary.
Many thanks for any assistance you can give me.
PatrickS2222
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2016
- Messages
- 494
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
- Tractor
- MF35, MF135, MF203 with loader.
How's the repair on the 165 coming along?
