35x, 45x, 55x, 65x series trucks... enlighten me

[RedNeckRacin]

When you say 20-25% tongue weight, that is for a GN, right? A receiver hitch should only need 10-15% on the ball to tow safely, is that correct? In which case a SRW 350/3500 should be OK as long as it has proper rated hitch components. But I agree, if your trailer brakes are deficient you better be hooked to a heavy truck, and even then you could be looking for trouble.

You got it. Those are rules of thumb but are pretty good to go by. Most of the time, people eye ball it. If you get tail heavy though, its much more likely to lose control of a trailer when the tail begins to wag the dog. 10%-15% of 17000lbs is alot of weight to be hanging off the ball. I think you would have to be looking at a w/d hitch at that point and you couldn't pay me to drag that much weight around off the tail of a 1 ton truck. My international, no sweat as long as I could find a heavy enough rated components.

Most states have exemptions for things like RV's, farmers, volunteer fireman driving fire trucks, etc. should be able to find it on your home states DMV web page. I have no idea how this works when you cross state lines I have never really studied he exemptions much as they don't apply to me.

CDL's are usually good for around five years and cost $60 or so for the five years. To renew you just pay the fee. You do have to maintain a DOT medical card which you get from a certified Doctor who gives you a DOT physical stating your are fit to drive a commercial vehicle. The physicals are usually around $100 and they are good anywhere from 6 months to 2 years depending on your health. These medical cards are linked to the DMV now and if it expires they pull your license. You also have to be part of a drug testing consortium. I pay $150 a year for this. They give me an initial test then I am in a pool with other CDL drivers and I get randomly selected for drug tests and have to take them from time to time. If you are a CDL driver working for a company as a driver the company pays for this testing.

Other bad things of CDL's are you can no longer take defensive driving for tickets even in your personal car. The CDL's are federally mandated and you can't get out of tickets doing deferred or defensive like you ca. with a regular license. The limit for DWI in a CMV is .04 instead of .08.

Now here is where it becomes a major pain. Having a CDL and driving for a company is pretty simple. If you want to have a CDL and drive your own commercial vehicle for business purposes you need your own DOT number, commercial insurance, driver training program, safety audits. maintainence program, log book record keeping, UCR, IFTA and IRP if crossing state lines, commercial inspections on your vehicles and trailers, etc. It is a major hassle and not cheap - the insurance especially. You don't simply just need a CDL and then you are able to drive whatever you want. There is a LOT more that goes along with it unless you are an employee driving someone else's truck that deals with all the red tape.

Man, you are on the ball on the cdl stuff. Normally we would have some yahoo's in here arguing numbers and swearing their uncle's cousin's brother has been doing it for 50 years some other way. I do believe that if you are hauling your own personal property though that a dot number is not required. The gotcha part is for "profit". that DOES NOT MEAN CASH. It can be ribbons or trophies i.e. horse shows, or races,

 

[joefromga]

In GA your can get a class E or F which is farm use only and within 150 miles of you farm and inside the state. They are equivalent to class A and B CDL as far as equipment goes but are only for farm use and not commercial. They are also self certify so you get a permit then 3 months later you can get the full license with a signed affidavit.

 

[downslope]

... I do believe that if you are hauling your own personal property though that a dot number is not required. The gotcha part is for "profit". that DOES NOT MEAN CASH. It can be ribbons or trophies i.e. horse shows, or races,

I have also heard that some local law enforcement cast a wide net with the "for profit" or engaged in "commerce" interpretation. They got my neighbor towing race cars (his own) from the track where trophies were involved. If you are towing a tractor/backhoe out to your country property to clean it up, build some sheds, etc, they can say you're improving the land for "profit". When that kind of stuff starts most of us will just give up, since it's not worth it to jump through all the hoops.

 

[downslope]

The 26k truck+10k trailer vs 26k truck+trailer combination (with a trailer that weighs over 10k) depends on your home state.
Federal rules are truck over 26,001# with a trailer over 10,001# = CDL.
NY says that a CDL is required for any truck and trailer combination where the truck GVWR and the trailer GVWR combined are equal to or greater than 26,001# (for vehicles that are registered in NY).
So, (for vehicles registered in NY) a CDL is required to drive a truck that has a GVWR of 25,002# with a trailer that has a GVWR of 1000#. Aaron Z

I don't believe that is correct for NY. Take a look at https://dmv.ny.gov/forms/mv500c.pdf NYS Driver License Class Descriptions, if you haven't already. You can see you only need the class A CDL provided the weight of the vehicle(s) being towed is greater than 10,000 pounds. Also it shows the regular Class D passenger car license is not restricted to 26,000 lbs unless the trailer is over 10,000. This is also the way it was explained to us at a class I took 2 years ago.

 

[Dadnatron]

Who would you actually have a definitive 'face to face' with in either .gov or the Police, in order to get the real skinny on how it is handled? This has gotten to be a WHOLE BUNCH BIGGER deal than I had ever thought it would be. The last thing I need is to get hit because I was hauling a horse to the vet or my tractor to the mechanic.

 

[bdog]

Your states highway patrol likely has a commercial vehicle enforcement or license & weights division. You can go to their office and sit down with an officer and have them explain it to you. That is what I did when I first got my DOT number 8 years ago. Hauling a horse to the vet or a tractor to the mechanic sounds like farm use to me and farmers are exempt from a lot of this BS.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

If you are hauling horses to a horse show and there is a purse it could be considered "for profit". Hauling them to the vet would be kosher. If you have obvious farm equipment on the trailer, it would be pretty hard to say it wasn't for farm use, but if you had it on the trailer every week, it would get suspicious.

I have seen the PA DOT conducting a roadside check on a 3/4t truck with a landscaping business name on the side and a trailer hooked up. It wasn't a state cop, it was a DOT officer (full black jammies). It was also not a traffic stop because they had the dot van out and had a triaxle pulled over in front of him. I'm assuming they were going to tag him for not having DOT numbers and the whole 9 yards.

The states are getting really picky over all these regulations and trying to fly under the radar is getting harder and harder. I still believe I don't personally need a DOT number but sometimes I question that judgement. I do know that once I got my class A, I have not given a second thought to playing the 26k numbers game. I'll also throw in that after ditching the pickup and getting a MDT, towing is MUCH LESS STRESSFUL. I have come nowhere close to maxing out the baby international and I like it that way. If I could figure out how to justify having a SA or TA dump truck I sure would by now!


to the OP, If you need a bigger truck, get it. If you need a higher license class, get it. Just because a toyota towed the space shuttle doesn't mean its a good idea. That 5100E is going to be quite a load behind a pickup. Start adding loaded tires, a loader, and an implement and the weights really start adding up.

 

[downslope]

Who would you actually have a definitive 'face to face' with in either .gov or the Police, in order to get the real skinny on how it is handled? This has gotten to be a WHOLE BUNCH BIGGER deal than I had ever thought it would be. The last thing I need is to get hit because I was hauling a horse to the vet or my tractor to the mechanic.

You've gotten a lot of good and for the most part very accurate advice here. Now you must decide what best fits your situation and budget.

#1. I would say don't try to "fly under the radar" and do anything illegal; the radar is getting lower and the fines and penalties higher all the time.

#2. CDL or not? You have to decide if you can haul your equipment needs and stay under total 26,000 lbs safely. Your greatest capacity while still staying under CDL will be a good quality 16K trailer (2 x 8,000 lb axles) pulled by a 9,900 or 10,000 GVW 1-ton truck using a good high capacity Class 5 weight distributing hitch. If you can't or don't want to do it this way, then you go the CDL route and that will open up many more capable used truck and trailer options, albeit with the associated red tape and extra costs. Only you can decide this, based first on your hauling requirments and secondly on budget and desire to do CDL.

#3. DOT Registration? From what you've explained here you are running a business, so yes, according to the regs you should have DOT numbers and all that goes with it, especially since KY requires it even for intrastate. This is one area you might be able to get by without, especially if just hauling your own horses and equipment once in a while; just don't have any business lettering on the vehicles or have them registered to a business or corporate name. Some states may have relaxed requirements for intrastate registration (such as hours of service), these are the DOT numbers you see with the 2-letter state abbreviation at the end. But then you say you want to haul in Indiana as well as KY, so in that regard you will be running interstate. You should talk to the sources bdog recommended but I would also try to talk to and observe what some of the other horse people and farmers are doing in your area.

#4. Regarding the dump trailer, IMO I don't think it will work for your applications. Basically not wide enough and not long enough, and if you are trying to stay under CDL the unladen weight will be higher than a non-dumping trailer, reducing the load capacity.

Good luck with you planning.:confused3:

 

[Dadnatron]

Thanks guys. I appreciate your help.

I have no desire to 'fly under the radar'. I have too much to lose, I just wanted to understand where that line was located and what it all meant. Honestly, I think the laws are random BS, given that while the towing capability and safety of the tow vehicle improves, the amount which is tow-able decreases. But, this is exactly what I've grown to expect from .gov bureaucracy rather than understanding.

I was able to find a graphic for KY CDL which confirms your thoughts. I will be going with a 1T DW and a 16,000 or less trailer. I just need to tow my horses and some farm equipment both safely and legally.

View attachment 464374

 

[bdog]

I was able to find a graphic for KY CDL which confirms your thoughts. I will be going with a 1T DW and a 16,000 or less trailer.

I couldn't see your attachment but a 1T DW (I assume this means one ton dually) will almost certainly have a GVWR of over 10k. Most newer duallies are in the 13-14k GVWR range. which would put you over the 26k combined if you have have a 16k trailer. We are in the market for a new work truck and I have been doing some shopping over the past few days. Most 3/4 tons I have looked at were 9500-10000 GVWR, 1 ton single rear wheels were around 11,500. I didn't even look at dallies because I need a non CDL driver to be able to pull a 14k GVWR trailer with it.