1754 Hydro Pedals

[onionfmr]

This is my first hydro tractor as I've always owned geared tractors. I've had some issues with the tractor's hydro operation. First, the tractor was overfilled when it arrived to my property by 1 1/2 gallons of hydro fluid. After a couple of hours of operation the tractor would buck in reverse. Almost felt like the parking brake was set on. Forward was fine. This only happened when the tractor got hot. First two hours of operation everything was fine. I've drained off the excess hydro fluid. Haven't had the issue since and have 25 hours on it now. I've had the dealer come and hookup computer to check for any error codes other possible issues. Dealer found nothing. Attempted to recalibrate the hydro pedals, but on the computer they looked fine. I'm going to do a complete hydro service and replace hydro fluid and filters as I feel it is contaminated. Hydro fluid is cloudy. I screened the 1 1/2 gallons of hydro fluid that I drained and have found hair and what looks like gasket material in the fluid. No metal.

Looking for answers from anybody with Massey 1700 series hydro tractors, preferably 1736, 1742, 1749, 1754, etc...

Questions:

1) At any range setting, (snail, turtle, rabbit), full forward is faster than full reverse. Pedal to the floor.
2) No matter what the hydro response dial is set at, if you stomp either hydro pedal to the floor (like you were peeling out in a car) the tractor slowly moves (winds up) and then takes off fine. There is a lag, almost like the old turbo chargers in cars. If you feather the pedal, everything seems fine.
3) On flat ground, tractor in gear, both pedals in neutral, no touching of the pedals, the tractor will creep in reverse ever so slightly. This doesn't happen all the time, but does it 2 or 3 times in 3 hours of operation.

Not getting much help from dealer yet. That's the reason for the post. However, starting to get annoyed. I have a theory that I have 2 issues. The first was overfilled hydro fluid. The 2nd is something isn't right with the hydro pedal electric switch. I could be wrong on this.

Any and all assistance and replies appreciated - Thanks.

 

[thclimer]

1) At any range setting, (snail, turtle, rabbit), full forward is faster than full reverse. Pedal to the floor.

This is true on my 1736, forward is much faster than reverse, I believe this is typical as my New Holland does the same.

2) No matter what the hydro response dial is set at, if you stomp either hydro pedal to the floor (like you were peeling out in a car) the tractor slowly moves (winds up) and then takes off fine. There is a lag, almost like the old turbo chargers in cars. If you feather the pedal, everything seems fine.

Both my New Holland and Massey do this. I believe with a Hydro you get the most torque at very little peddle depression, as you continue to press down your tractor will go faster but if you are going up an incline you might stall.

3) On flat ground, tractor in gear, both pedals in neutral, no touching of the pedals, the tractor will creep in reverse ever so slightly. This doesn't happen all the time, but does it 2 or 3 times in 3 hours of operation.

Both my New Holland and Massey sit completely still when the range selector is in neutral.

One thing I have noticed that is different between my New Holland and Massey is that my New Holland is much quicker to respond. For instance if I'm on a hill, facing down hill and I want to go in reverse, once I take my foot off the brake and begin to press down on the hydro peddle on my 1736, the tractor will roll forward quite a bit. Sometimes a foot or more which if you didn't want to hit something its nearly impossible. On my TC33D, it grabs immediately and you do not roll forward at all.

 

[onionfmr]

3) On flat ground, tractor in gear, both pedals in neutral, no touching of the pedals, the tractor will creep in reverse ever so slightly. This doesn't happen all the time, but does it 2 or 3 times in 3 hours of operation.

thclimer - I really appreciate your reply. I'm trying to sort this out before snow season and am starting to get frustrated!

On question #3, the tractor is in gear. It happened to me the other day as I stopped to answer my smartphone. I was sitting there, feet off the hydro pedals, tractor on level ground and the tractor started to creep in reverse. Like I said, it has happened several times to me. Maybe, 3 times in 4 hours of operation.

Thanks for any and all replies.

 

[thclimer]

I've never looked to see where the Hydro peddles go and I know you mentioned the dealer tried to recalibrate your with their computer, but I'm wondering if there is some kind of mechanical linkage which could be adjusted.

My TC33D has a rocker peddle that prevents you from going both directions at the same time. I wonder how the Massey prevents this from happening when you have (2) separate peddles?

 

[onionfmr]

thclimer - thanks again for the reply. So far, I've sorted out 4 problems on this tractor, one to go. Today, the dealer brought over a new hydro pedal switch. Installed it. Problem fixed. No more pedal issues and the tractor creeping in reverse randomly. Apparently, there are no mechanical linkage adjustments to be made. We couldn't find anything. Everything is controlled by the computer through the hydro pedal switch.

Last problem, after tractor gets warm, I get a chattering in reverse and lose on average 1/2 mph in mid range speed selector. Feels like the parking brake is partially applied. This only happens after a couple of hours of operation. Hydro fluid is cloudy and dealer thinks that it is contaminated. Dealer also thinks that the hydro fluid has foamed because it was 1 1/2 gallon overfilled and that is what is causing the chattering problem. I don't know on this one? But, since they have given me the fluid and filter, I'm going to give this a try.

 

[thclimer]

Interesting, so is there a separate switch for each peddle?

Hope your hydro fluid and filter change fixes your chattering issue.

 

[onionfmr]

Interesting, so is there a separate switch for each peddle?

Hope your hydro fluid and filter change fixes your chattering issue.

There is one switch for both pedals. The switch controls forward, reverse and neutral. When using the Massey software and accessing the computer there is a screen that shows values for the three functions. Then there is the actual value that the switch sees. I was curious when the tech was testing the other day and the actual neutral value kept coming up different then the set value. The actual forward and reverse values held pretty close to the preset values. We checked all the values on the old switch prior to installing the new switch. The values for forward, reverse and neutral for the new switch were significantly different then the old switch. After three hours of running and not one issue with the pedals, I'm fairly confident that the new switch worked. I post this information in part so that it may help others in the future with similar issues.

My chattering in reverse issue is next. To clarify, the transmission hydro lever was overfilled by well over 1 1/2 gallons. I would guess it is still a couple of quarts overfilled. Tractor would not reverse after around 1 hour of continuous operation. I drained off some fluid and it became 2 hours. After I've drained off the 1 1/2 gallons, it is now 3 hours of continuous operation when the problem appears. Hydro oil is definitely cloudy and the oil that I've drained off had hair and what appears to be gasket material in it. To be honest, I'm not really confident in that changing the fluid will fix this problem. However, it it worth a try and the dealer has supplied the filter and the hydro oil.

 

[thclimer]

"Hair and gasket material" doesn't sound good to me either.

Where are you seeing the cloudy appearance? In the sight glass?

Does it go away once it sits over night?

How were you able to control only draining off the 1.5 gallons as I'm guessing you did not remove the bottom drain plug?

 

[onionfmr]

"Hair and gasket material" doesn't sound good to me either.

Where are you seeing the cloudy appearance? In the sight glass?

Does it go away once it sits over night?

How were you able to control only draining off the 1.5 gallons as I'm guessing you did not remove the bottom drain plug?

Cloudy appearance of hydro oil is seen in the sight glass first thing in the AM after using it the day before. After running the tractor for an hour or so the cloudiness disappears, but reappears the next morning. I've had several Massey tractors over the years and this is a first for me with hydro oil.

I've discussed this situation with several diesel tractor mechanics. They all seem to think that there is a pretty good chance that changing the filter, cleaning the screen and replacing the hydro oil will solve the problem. I'm not so confident. The consensus theory is that as the tractor is operated junk in the hydro oil is piling up at a port and plugging the flow of hydro fluid which causes the reverse issue. After the tractor sits, the junk flows off and the cycle starts all over again when I restart the tractor the next day. I don't know. Seems reasonable. Only time will tell after I change everything.

The 1754 has 3 drain holes for hydraulics. The main center hole in the transmission, and 2 smaller drain plugs on the side of the housing near where the 3 point arms attach. To drain off hydraulic fluid, I put down cardboard, get a big bucket and open the main plug a little. Hold it there to only let off a little oil at a time.

 

[lazermule]

There is one switch for both pedals. The switch controls forward, reverse and neutral. When using the Massey software and accessing the computer there is a screen that shows values for the three functions. Then there is the actual value that the switch sees. I was curious when the tech was testing the other day and the actual neutral value kept coming up different then the set value. The actual forward and reverse values held pretty close to the preset values. We checked all the values on the old switch prior to installing the new switch. The values for forward, reverse and neutral for the new switch were significantly different then the old switch. After three hours of running and not one issue with the pedals, I'm fairly confident that the new switch worked. I post this information in part so that it may help others in the future with similar issues.

My chattering in reverse issue is next. To clarify, the transmission hydro lever was overfilled by well over 1 1/2 gallons. I would guess it is still a couple of quarts overfilled. Tractor would not reverse after around 1 hour of continuous operation. I drained off some fluid and it became 2 hours. After I've drained off the 1 1/2 gallons, it is now 3 hours of continuous operation when the problem appears. Hydro oil is definitely cloudy and the oil that I've drained off had hair and what appears to be gasket material in it. To be honest, I'm not really confident in that changing the fluid will fix this problem. However, it it worth a try and the dealer has supplied the filter and the hydro oil.

The pedal switch looks to be the very same switch/sensor that is used as a throttle position sensor on a number of vehicles. Just an observation, but I think it's a common part. Looks like a Delphi design.

LM