2 wheel or 4 wheel?

[Gale Hawkins]

For any kind of grain or field crop farming, you either inherit it, or you go into big debt. But for vegetable farming you don't have to go into debt, or it can be quite minor. you don't need a lot of land to produce lots of veggies...I just point to jean martin fortier in quebec, he works 1.5 acres, all with a BCS and hand tools, and he grosses in the six figure range, even after he pays his hired help they keep like 70 grand, so it's a middle class lifestyle for him and they never really had any debt to speak of. Eliot Coleman says that's the one nice thing about vegetable farming, that you don't need to go into debt to do it. It's unlike field crop farming or big cattle ranching in that regard, where they say "get big, or get out!"

I find the old utility tractors are usually in the 2-5K range, but 9n are out there for 1500. They don't have hydrostatic or 4wd, but in many cases they are equal or more powerful than machines costing 10 times or more money. Hydro robs power. I mean a 9n is close to 30 hp, what does a kubota 30 hp of the same weight class cost? 15-20K? Or more depending on options?!? A ford 861 is not a lot bigger footprint than an 8N but it's around 60hp, that's just nuts! Power steering, live hydraulics, live PTO. They sell for 3-5K. Probably 30-40K for something like that from Deere or Kubota I'll bet. Lots of retired farmers restore old tractors as a hobby, and there are some great running machines out there. Just don't buy one that's beat all to **** and left outside all year for 50 years, heck for the money you save you can buy two so you won't be lacking the use of it when one of them needs repairs.

I'm actually envious of the people in Wisconsin. The farm density is higher or has been higher due to all the dairy farms, and it's like a utility tractor paradise over there! I wonder if it isn't the best place in the USA to buy old american tractors. Close to Michigan too where they made a lot of that stuff! When I get bored I look on craigslist tractor ads and think "if only that beauty was here and not 500-700 mi away in Wisconsin!"

Look at this beautiful piece of old American Iron!

Thanks for getting me to dreaming about reliving the past with that photo. If I had the money and covered storage I would have to have that 861.

OP this was the tractor that Dad used to put out truck patches. A 6.5' disk, 2 bottom plow and a 2 row corn planter with an assortment of plates for different kinds of seeds plus a two row set of cultivators would work well for little cash if it was just a working tractor and not for show like this one in the photo. A nice walk behind tiller would be the icing on the cake.

 

[arrows]

Well, I've carefully considered everyone's input, and kept researching all kinds of tractors. I searched the heck out of craigslist and found a couple BCS's (both 749's) each about 300 miles away from me. What I've read about the 749's seems like they're high-maintenance. The transmission oil and filter have to replaced every 100 hours, which will come up frequently in a large market garden application. Then there's the gas engine, with today's fuel necessitating annoying storage procedures.

Then I started looking into old Yanmars and Kubotas from the 70s-early 80s. And that's when I figured out that I could get a narrow-width tractor with a diesel engine, 3pt hitch, independent PTO (in the case of Kubota) or powershift (in the case of Yanmar), independent hydraulics, 20-30 HP, 4wd and possibly a bucket loader, a wide range of low and high gears, and a simple reliable design that any shade-tree mechanic can understand, with good parts availability. All for somewhere around $5000. And I don't have to drive over 300 miles to find one. I think I'm sold. Gonna go check out some of these over the next couple days.

Question: does having a bucket loader on the front affect traction when pulling discs and plows? Obviously I'd put weight on the back anyway, but didn't know if I'd need more weight than usual.
Hm, I guess any tractor with a loader would have 4wd anyway....

 

[CADplans]

Question: does having a bucket loader on the front affect traction when pulling discs and plows? Obviously I'd put weight on the back anyway, but didn't know if I'd need more weight than usual.
Hm, I guess any tractor with a loader would have 4wd anyway....

DO NOT buy one unless it has a quick detach loader,,
I have two loader equipped tractors, either loader can come off in about 3 minutes,,,

Gardening is ZERO fun with a loader on the front,,, you are constanty knocking over stuff!!,,,, :confused2:

 

[jcraftenworth]

Well, I've carefully considered everyone's input, and kept researching all kinds of tractors. I searched the heck out of craigslist and found a couple BCS's (both 749's) each about 300 miles away from me. What I've read about the 749's seems like they're high-maintenance. The transmission oil and filter have to replaced every 100 hours, which will come up frequently in a large market garden application. Then there's the gas engine, with today's fuel necessitating annoying storage procedures.

Then I started looking into old Yanmars and Kubotas from the 70s-early 80s. And that's when I figured out that I could get a narrow-width tractor with a diesel engine, 3pt hitch, independent PTO (in the case of Kubota) or powershift (in the case of Yanmar), independent hydraulics, 20-30 HP, 4wd and possibly a bucket loader, a wide range of low and high gears, and a simple reliable design that any shade-tree mechanic can understand, with good parts availability. All for somewhere around $5000. And I don't have to drive over 300 miles to find one. I think I'm sold. Gonna go check out some of these over the next couple days.

Question: does having a bucket loader on the front affect traction when pulling discs and plows? Obviously I'd put weight on the back anyway, but didn't know if I'd need more weight than usual.
Hm, I guess any tractor with a loader would have 4wd anyway....

I'd say since the loader is attached to the tractor, overall it puts more weight to all wheels than if not attached. But i'd never want to keep one on a field tractor day after day. Clunky and in the way. Some modern ones are not too bad to take on and off, I think a lot of older units are a bugger

 

[farmerboybill]

I have a koyker K6 for the front of my 1977 4430. It takes about half an hour to mount and dismount it. I hate it, and wish I'd never bought it. It's nearly never on because I also have a 317 Deere skid steer. Loaders on tractors are always a compromise. They're bulky, add weight to the front axle, and not very user friendly. I grew up on a 60 cow dairy farm and we never had a loader on a tractor. I now know why. Skid steer loaders are unbeatable in just about any task versus a tractor and loader.

 

[arrows]

Hm, yeah, I was wondering about the awkwardness of having a loader attached when it's not being used. Well, the guy with the FEL tractor isn't returning my emails and voicemail, so maybe I'm dodging that bullet anyway.

 

[jcraftenworth]

Bill, I see in your tagline you own both a double moldboard plow and a dual rotary plow. What is or would be your preference for breaking new ground? Off hand it seems like the rotary plow would be simpler since it doesn't seem like tire weights or having larger diameter or width tires for the added traction is as much of an issue.

My next soilworking implement purchase is probably gonna be a rotary plow. For my immediate use it seems like the single rotary plow would be just fine for running it in a circular route around my established rectangular shaped raised beds to maintain their raised height, and it's a lot cheaper than the double. The only issue is if I'm gonna regret it in the future when I want to break new garden plots, there I can see some real time saving in being able to go up and down and keep all the soil thrown in the same direction. With the single rotary people are either driving back to the original plowing point or working on the outermost edges of the new plot and eventually meeting up in the center. I read that the dual rotary is best for working on slopes, but honestly out here in great plains farming country the fields are very flat, I'd say virtually pancake flat! Do you think the dual rotary plow is worth the extra $650 vs the single if buying a new plow?

 

[arrows]

Do you think the dual rotary plow is worth the extra $650 vs the single if buying a new plow?

I know you weren't addressing me, but I just wanted to say that while I was searching craigslist I found a couple of old Gravely's with dual rotary plows. These are the originals, with no safety features - they spin the blades out in the open and god help anyone who gets in the way! But if cash is tight, you can get a good machine for no more than $1000.

 

[CADplans]

My next soilworking implement purchase is probably gonna be a rotary plow.

My favorite soil working tool is my rotary plow.
I use it seldomly for garden plowing (I do not believe in turning over a garden, that is another story!!:confused2

I use the rotary plow for planting smaller plants (not trees) such as blueberries.

I have probably planted over three hundred plants with it.

I have cleaned ditches, installed gutter run-off pipes,,, etc with it.
This is a pic of my rotary right after I had planted a 200 foot row of periwinkle for my daughter.

Some of the periwinkle was placed in a trench, more steep locations, I just used the rotary to dig a hole.

Over the years, I have picked up three rotary plows,,, and I have two brand new, un-used plows.
So, I do not worry about damaging one,, let the rocks come on!!

 

[arrows]

Alright, I am now the proud owner of a Yanmar YM2500! Right up until I called the guy to say I'd take it, I was still analyzing craigslist BCS's vs. this tractor. If there's anyone in my area who has a 2 wheeler, I'd totally be up for doing a contest to compare one acre of Yanmar vs. one acre of BCS. I suspect the two wheelers will still give a finer seedbed (since I'll just be using a disc and chain harrow, until thousands of dollars rain from the sky so I can afford a Rinaldi), but since I'll be transplanting most things, I don't think that will be too much of a problem for me.